Saintbertholdt

Joined

• started 24 topics
• posted 880 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Saintbertholdt

• 
  31

  heart troubles

  by zeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear all,.

  my health took a beating over the years with stress from various sources, not a little from the wt; and dangerous areas of work involving fumes and so on.

  the arc also took its toll and i have had recently a heart attack.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  I salute you and good health to you.
• 
  13

  What is the Latest JW Teaching on the Last Days and 1914

  by Distracted in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just wondering what the witnesses are saying now about the last days and how they know armageddon is real close, etc.

  what is the latest teaching about 1914?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  They still believe 1914 is the end of the gentile times according to their interpretation of Daniel 4. However the generation doctrine that within the lifetime of the 1914 generation Armageddon would occur has been modified.

  The generation is now defined thusly: Anointed brother X was of the 1914 generation. Anointed brother Y was born decades later but knew brother X.

  So the generation is now: Brother X's lifetime until he came to know brother Y + Brother Y's lifetime after he came to know brother X. Now some time in the far distant future brother Y's generation is going to be close to its natural maximum lifespan and then they'll have to introduce brother Z. But that's the problem for the another Governing Body and the current Governing Body hope that they'll all be dead by then.

  See: 2010, the April 15th Watchtower

  Also: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/generation.php
• 
  10

  Why does the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses use the Bible?

  by WireRider in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower, post russell, and the jehovah's witnesses hate the jews and the catholics.

  they are not allowed to even set foot in the churches of the bible.

  they endlessly rail against how wrong they are - but they are all based on their book??.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hi again Wirerider,

  You wrote: I do respectively disagree. In the mid 1900's Christianity from some small place in the middle east didn't have time to be corrupted.

  I think you are misinterpreting what I meant. Russell believed that Christianity had been corrupted very early in Christian history. Here is a 1911 quote from the Church Record Card which Russell introduced:

  "...I love all who love God and are seeking His ways, but I abominate the creeds of the 'dark ages,' which did so much to misrepresent the Divine Character and Plan and which so seriously enslaved so many of God’s people in the chains of ignorance and superstition."

  Russell believed that most Christian denominations had elements of "truth" that survived over the centuries which needed to be distilled into the original form of Christianity. For example, from the book Pastor Russell's Sermon's: "I believe more emphatically than do most Presbyterians that the Church is an especially elect class, and is now being gathered out of the world to be God’s agents in the ultimate blessing of all the non-elect. I believe with Baptists that only the Elect, the immersed, will constitute the Kingdom of God, although I deny their claim that baptism in water is the real immersion. I hold, with the Apostle, that it is baptism into Christ’s death. Similarly I hold to the great Catholic doctrine that there is only one true Church, founded by the Lord Jesus Christ through His Apostles, nearly nineteen centuries ago."

  So this idea that the "truth" needed to be filtered continued on with Rutherford during the 1920s with the abandonment of traditional Christian practices such as Christmas (which was now deemed pagan) and so on.

  Which now comes full circle to your question of: "Then why use (pervert) their book?"'

  My reasoning is pretty straight forward: When a religion develops over time that feels that it is sifting out the original spirit, sentiment and dogma of "original" Christianity, it would only be a matter of time before that religion would re-evaluate the efforts of past Christian translators and therefore "a Jehovah's Witness version of the Bible [would] logically follow" as a result. Which it did, although later than might have been expected, although factors such as the organizations size and a world war need to be considered as possible contributing factors to the delay.
• 
  10

  Why does the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses use the Bible?

  by WireRider in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower, post russell, and the jehovah's witnesses hate the jews and the catholics.

  they are not allowed to even set foot in the churches of the bible.

  they endlessly rail against how wrong they are - but they are all based on their book??.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there Wirerider, you wrote:

  ...Jehovah's Witnesses hate the Jews and the Catholics.
  

  Well they just adopted an old protestant sentiment.

  Then why use (pervert) their book?

  Because its very difficult to gain credibility with a brand new holy book and anyone who claims to be directly inspired by God or to have special knowledge is quickly challenged to prove it, which as yet nobody can. So its easier to use an existing book to base your theology on and to claim to be the only one correctly interpreting it.

  In the case of the Watchtower, Rutherford just evolved Russell's belief that Christianity had essentially been corrupted (this idea originated during the protestant reformation) and it was the Bible Student's task to distill the "truth" from the lies. Therefore sooner or later (later in this particular case) a Jehovah's Witness version of the Bible had to logically follow.

  ... Rutherford was a teen age girl groupie of Hitler

  Rutherford attempted a compromise with Hitler between 1933 - 1935 and used questionable language to attempt to find a neutral space for the Bible Students to exist. After no compromise was to be found, he was exceptionally anti-Nazi.

  ...many still suffer from the adoption of the Nazi youth program brainwashing by Rutherford.

  I'm not aware of the Watchtower ever adopting any Hitler youth methodology's as the Bible Students had even been persecuted under the Weimar Republic which severely escalated during the Nazi era from 1933 onward.

  Do you perhaps have more information on this adoption of "Nazi youth" techniques?
• 
  2

  jwlies.com

  by Saintbertholdt in

  1. social
  2. current

  every now and again when i'm on the forum among the many wonderful advertisements that gets thrown up on the page by google adsense, i sometimes get the following:.

  1. now if i was still a jehovah's witness and i saw the website name: jwlies.com, the symbol of the christian dove and the bullet points 'jehovah's witnesses, you are being deceived', the '100% undeniable proof' and the 'no apostate materials', i would have to say that i would have to have been on the verge of writing my disassociation letter and then relieving myself on the podium during the watchtower study before i would even consider clicking on that link.. 2. now suppose that a devout jw had a temporary bout of periodic limb movement disorder and accidentally clicked on the add.

  this is what they would get on the first page:.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there all,

  Every now and again when I'm on the forum among the many wonderful advertisements that gets thrown up on the page by Google Adsense, I sometimes get the following:

  

  1. Now if I was still a Jehovah's Witness and I saw the website name: jwlies.com, the symbol of the Christian dove and the bullet points 'Jehovah's Witnesses, You are Being Deceived', the '100% Undeniable Proof' and the 'No Apostate Materials', I would have to say that I would have to have been on the verge of writing my disassociation letter and then relieving myself on the podium during the Watchtower study before I would even consider clicking on that link.

  2. Now suppose that a devout JW had a temporary bout of Periodic Limb Movement Disorder and accidentally clicked on the add. This is what they would get on the first page:

  
  

  Well all I can say is that whoever's idea it was to establish this site and who are currently still paying for the Google ads, they certainly are attempting the direct and HARD SELL!

  Would you ever have clicked on an add like this, even when you were having doubts?
• 
  18

  My new Religion is The Truth.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what exactly is religion?

  why all of the pain?

  you either love religion (usually the one you call home), you hate it.. or you're somewhere in between, and you say "let bygones be bygones".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  As Marijuana is a gateway Drug that leads to LSD, Judging is a gateway bias that leads to Discrimination.

  Hi LAWHFol,

  That statement was rather curious.

  If Marijuana is a gateway to LSD, then Coffee is a gateway to Alcohol.

  How did you make a Marijuana LSD connection if I may ask?

  Incidentally since 2008 LSD has been studied for use as a method of anxiety relief in terminally ill cancer patients. It has also recently (2012) been studied as an adjunctive treatment for of all things alcoholism. Also LSD may possibly be psychologically habit forming (depending on the individual) but is not physically habit forming.
• 
  12

  Old Books and Magazines

  by twice shy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's been a minute since i was here.

  question?

  what to do with old books and magazines?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  When I was a devout Jehovah's Witness I had severe magazine angst. I was almost never able to place all my magazines I got from the literature counter and over time my literature pile would start growing on my field service cupboard shelf. After about two years I would have to clear them out and would have pangs of conscience in getting rid of them. I would contribute for each magazine I disposed of to sooth my troubled brow.

  After leaving I destroyed all my Watchtower literature with relish and glee.

  
  

  
  

  
  
• 
  49

  Who would you vote for Today?

  by James Mixon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  d. trump or h. clinton and why.. i would vote for gun slinging trump..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  
  

  OR

  

  
  
• 
  10

  Is this possible?

  by WasOnceBlind in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all my parents don't know that i no longer consider my self a jw of believe in the stuff they say (after 10+ years of dissociation it shouldn't be rocket science) and there is no way my dad would ever listen to me if i were to talk to him about tatt and all the contradictions and false prophecies.

  however, he is always reading, and he spends a lot of time in the computer using the wt library (the cd one).

  i was wondering, if there would be a way to maybe "hack" the program, maybe replace some wt books with copies of something like crisis of conscience.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  I was wondering, if there would be a way to maybe "hack" the program, maybe replace some WT books with copies of something like Crisis of Conscience.

  Even better, tell him to read the James book on the Library.

  It was written by Ed Dunlap and edited by Raymond Franz. In my opinion its the precursor to In Search of Christian Freedom,
• 
  11

  Sexual reproduction as an argument against evolution

  by Saintbertholdt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about a day ago startrekangel mentioned that an idea was put forward by a jw that sexual reproduction was an argument against evolution.

  here's startrekangel's quote: "is this some kind of talk being spread around in congregations?

  the funny thing is that a while ago someone tried to make the same argument, saying they could disprove evolution because no one can explain how we evolved male and female at the same time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hello there all,

  About a day ago StarTrekAngel mentioned that an idea was put forward by a JW that sexual reproduction was an argument against evolution. Here's StarTrekAngel's quote: "Is this some kind of talk being spread around in congregations? The funny thing is that a while ago someone tried to make the same argument, saying they could disprove evolution because no one can explain how we evolved male and female at the same time. Not much later than that, a friend of mine (a JW) told me the same thing. I thought either he read the same post or this is going around the congregations as a means to challenge evolution. I know my friend and I know he does not come around this website."

  Well I have now come across this as well. A close relative of mine who is a JW made the same argument in writing that gender had to emerge very rapidly, therefore pointing to the idea of divine creation rather than natural selection. My first thoughts on this was quite straight forward:

  Without even looking at the scientific evidence, one could reason that if evolution was true then the further back one went into living organism history up to single celled organisms, the more asexual reproduction would be the primary method of heredity in organisms, with a combination of sexual and asexual reproduction becoming more prevalent over time, and then the emergence of a proto-sexual reproduction method before the sexes are fully defined.

  So then I turned to the interwebs:

  I went looking for the oldest organisms to emerge in the animal kingdom which turns out to be Sponges in the phylum porifera (pore bearers). It seems that they can reproduce 4 ways: 3 ways asexually and also 1 way sexually without the use of gonads. So sexual reproduction could therefore have evolved slowly and become more defined while asexual reproduction was primarily being used.

  At about the same time the animal kingdom shows up in the fossil record, other Eukaryotes (organisms with defined cell membranes and a nucleus) also appear namely Ciliates (protozoans with hair like organelles). They don't have sexual reproduction per se (they also have various asexual methods) however they can exchange genetic material with each other through a process called conjugation. I would call this a proto-sexual process.

  Going back even further in living organism history one gets to a process called horizontal gene transfer (which is still happening today in bacteria) where even totally different species can exchange DNA material and the reproduction boundaries are utterly blurred. To me it seems as if these ancient one celled organisms were a bunch of hedonistic miscreants! Incidentally this process of horizontal gene transfer makes the identification of LUCA (the Last Universal Common Ancestor) seemingly highly improbable.

  So....

  Is my logic reasonable?

  Is there a simpler/better way to explain this?
  

  Are there any good books on this particular topic?