TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  13

  Are Venus and Serena Williams baptized?

  by inkling in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone heard actual evidence that they are or are not?.

  (besides the absurdity of thier actions that the local elders would have to let slide).

  do they even claim to be witneses anymore?.

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  TonusOH

  I don't think a non-JW would care. JWs might want to know, because if they're baptized then at least one of them should be DF, as Diogensister pointed out. If they are not, then I would suspect that many JWs would see their association as potentially a good thing, helping to spark more interest in their teachings. Unfortunately, these days it's much easier to hop on the internet and search than it is to ask a JW. So the story many people get is the unvarnished one that the WTS really wishes no one knew about.
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  73

  Ukraine - Nato - US crisis

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  don't understand....but this crisis in ukraine seems to be getting out of control....i mean, everybody knows how to start a war..... by the way, as always, people at the borg are having a field day.....

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  TonusOH

  Ukraine joining NATO would have left Russia pretty vulnerable because of the terrain. I think Putin has wanted to annex it completely for a long time in order to avoid being in a very weak military position. If anything shows how vital that region is, it's the extent to which NATO has helped Ukraine, once they realized that the Russian army was in rough shape and could be substantially weakened, if not outright defeated.

  As for how long it goes, I think it will last a couple of years. Putin cannot lose this war or it is the end of him. Zelensky is in a similar spot, since he has made it clear that he will not negotiate any terms that do not include Russia returning any land they are holding. NATO would be in a pretty nasty spot if Russia takes enough territory or wins outright. I don't see a negotiated settlement until there is no more will to fight, which will likely only happen once one or both armies are ground into dust.
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  20

  What are the odds that Armageddon is soooo close?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well judging from past prophetic pronouncements....go figure.

  "surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of god that the lord jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" watchtower 1924 jan 1 p.5).

  "the prophecy of the bible, fully supported by the physical facts in fulfillment thereof, shows that the second coming of christ dates from the fall of the year 1914.

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  TonusOH

  That's a good point, a watcher. Armageddon does not just suddenly happen, in the JW version of things. It follows a period of anarchy and persecution that is so extreme that it would end humanity without God's intervention. Maybe the teaching of the Great Tribulation is even more of a problem for the WTS than Armageddon itself. Because if they ever claim that we are in that time, then it is a period of time that has to get worse and end with Armageddon. If things improve or stabilize for a time, then they would be wrong.

  In other words, there is a beginning of the end in their worldview, and it should be so extraordinary as to be identifiable. There shouldn't be any hesitation on their part, no "these events might be the start of something." Everyone should be able to recognize that this is something unprecedented and meaningful. Until that happens, it doesn't matter how close the Day of Jehovah is... it hasn't begun.
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  6

  C of E Abuse Report. Contrast with JW org !

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  note this report covers cases going back to 1949, they uncovered 400. if j.w's in the u.k did a similar, thorough trawl of all congregation records going back that far, let's pretend they haven't destroyed most of them, we know they have, but just pretend they are all available, how many cases of abuse would they uncover ?

  in a much smaller org ?.

  maybe the file destruction that has gone on was to protect the org.

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  TonusOH

  The article headline used "C of E" and the first sentence of the article reads "The Church of England has suffered from a culture of deference, inertia, misogyny [etc]". Click the link and you would have understood what it mean in literally the first four words.

  As for Phizzy's question about what the JWs might discover: I think it was the Australia commission that found a record of complaints/reports of CSA against more than 1,000 JWs. I believe that this was during a period a bit shorter than the 1940s to present. I don't think the numbers can be compared directly, but it's still a staggering total.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  I agree that the low view totals must be driving him bonkers, especially as he wonders where the other 98,000 subscribers have gone. I think he's been trying to branch out, but that means having to build a viewership all over again. exJWs will not be very interested in the Mormons or Scientologists, and if he wants to rebrand as an atheist channel, that's also a completely different demographic.

  He's almost back where he was when he began, only now he has the baggage of his own actions and attitude weighing him down. It looks like a long and very rough road ahead for him.
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  24

  'In Search of Christian Freedom'

  by riblah in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i cross-posted this on reddit:.

  i would love to have a hard copy of this book.

  does anyone know about how to go about persuading the person who has the rights to print a batch?.

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  TonusOH

  If someone is only interested in the contents, I think many (if not all) of those books are available online in PDF format. Some are even full page-by-page scans of the original, instead of just the text.

  Edit to add: I am not referring to the books by Raymond Franz, which are protected by copyright. I would note that Crisis of Conscience is available on Amazon Kindle for $8. But In Search of Christian Freedom is not, sadly.
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  8

  Illinois Elders as mandatory reporters must undergo training

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  illinois now requires all elders as mandatory reporters to undergo state approved training every three years to ensure they fully understand their roles as mandated reporters.

  this will include a pre training assessment, 60 - 90 mins of self paced, interactive training with a final assessment to ensure reporters understand their responsibilities.

  following the course, mandated reporters must make a declaration that they understand their status as a reporter and will fully comply with mandatory requirements.

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  TonusOH

  There's a great opportunity for this to eventually hurt the WTS. At some point, an elder may report CSA to the proper authorities. And if the organization tries to punish him for it, they may be facing more than a potential civil suit from the former elder. It could possibly become a federal case. And that would be way more serious than any civil suit. I'd love to see WatchTower lawyers try some of their legal tricks against a DOJ investigation or court case.
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  6

  Annual Meeting 2022: Geoffrey Jackson: Why Jerusalem mattersem Matters

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/pdtwglldsza.

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  TonusOH

  Didn't the WTS paint itself as the 'New Israel' or something along those lines? The idea was that there would be a spiritual Israel that would be God's new nation and His new people. Regardless of what happens in the Mideast, they can claim that they're the focus of any prophecies and of God's favor because they're the modern-day Israel, as far as Jehovah is concerned.
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  15

  Do you believe in ultimate justice?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ultimate justice means that conduct is not inconsequential.

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  TonusOH

  Conduct is always consequential, but we may not agree that the consequences were fair or just.

  And our ability to rationalize decisions and outcomes can make that difficult to determine sometimes. Imagine a pair of young people who have sex out of wedlock and produce a child. They might use the trope of "anytime I look at my child, I know my actions were good/worth it/etc." But to many religious denominations, they have committed a grave sin and are potentially hell-bound.

  But, what if the child grows up to be a great champion of justice, and finds ways to make the world a better place... do those religious people still feel that the parents are condemned to eternal suffering for bringing that person into the world? Or do they get a pass to Heaven instead? Is either of those endings just? What would be the ultimate justice in that scenario?
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  45

  which Translation Now?

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those of you who still respect the bible, which translation/s are you using now?

  why?.

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  TonusOH

  Fisherman: The NWT though is just amazing. No comparison.

  I agree with the 'no comparison' part.