Posts by peacefulpete

5

Interesting Scripture!

by Iamallcool in

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jeremiah/20/#v24020007 .

.i have never noticed this scripture!

verse 7. i have never read the whole bible!

It is an interesting turn of phrase, "You fooled/deceived me" . It reflects the more primitive sentiment that humans are tools/ pawns in the Yahweh's hands. While how much of the book reflects the work of the one man is hotly debated, the message of Jeremiah at least here is one of capitulation to Babylon. Make what you will of the mental state of the prophets, he was sure Babylon was going to clobber them and felt the best course was to bow down.

His message was understandably unpopular and viewed as traitorous.

The priest had him put in stocks and he was ridiculed for his lack of faith and courage.

As a prophet during Josiah's attempts to reform the religion of Judah he was of the Yahwist camp that no doubt delighted in his insistence upon exclusive Yahweh worship.

He saw the Egyptians then kill Josiah and then depose Josiah's son Jehoahaz from the throne and appoint Jehoiakim king. Then he saw Egypt's rival Babylon take over and siege Jerusalem and Jehoiakim change allegiance from Egypt to Babylon. Then "Babylonian,[a] Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite" raiders come and kill Jehoiakim, possibly for some revolt(??)

The Babylon subsequently appointed Jehoiachin/Jeconiah as king at either 8 or 18 years old.

3 months later Babylon sent armies to collect the royals to take them to Babylon for assimilation and education.

Jeremiah suggested they give up but the King insisted upon resistance.

Jeremiah saw a lot of confusing turns of events and likely felt a bit "fooled" much of the time.

8

Installation of Yahweh alone

by Doug Mason in

i have released my latest study for your criticism, corrections, and advice.. “installation of yahweh alone”.

yahweh’s journey from local warrior god assigned to weather and storms to his installation as the universal deity -- and the people who put him there.. available at: https://www.academia.edu/s/e1d2a5b016?source=link .

doug .

peacefulpete

Your review is a labor of love. No doubt it helps organize the thoughts by actually writing them out. If I might suggest a couple areas of refinement. The process of syncretizing the imported Yahweh deity with the indigenous gods El and Baal, was a painful and long process. Gradually the iconography and theophanic language was shifted to Yahweh by those with the power to do it. It seems largely a political strategy of leaders such as Josiah to unite a small empire with a state religion. Religious purists likely chaffed at expressions like "Bull Yahweh" and the occasions wherein worship of Yahweh involved the use of bulls. But political power and time win over. Incredibly the OT contains both religious positions tenuously side by side; condemnation of Yahwism with Baal and El iconography, and overt acceptance of this transition.

Regarding Yahweh's origin from the south, the Kennite hypothesis convincingly put the pieces together many years ago. Conclusive, no but the OT assertions to that effect are pretty hard to explain if not accurate. At least it was widely believed that Yahweh was a Edom/Medianite deity that "adopted" Israel as his people.

I'll also suggest pursuing research regarding the "10 tribes of Isreal". Modern scholarship might use the term as a nod to earlier work in reference to the Northern coalition/nation of Israel but in doing so are not literally suggesting 10 of an original 12 are historical tribes. The "tribe" names are often simply geographical or etiological creations not sons of of a patriarchal Jacob. The number 12 has cultic symbolism.

17

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

by Diogenesister in

can anyone remember the reasoning the watchtower gave for jesus speaking these words?

if you have a reference that would be even better!.

peacefulpete

First, The quote is itself a very loose Greek LXX translation of the Hebrew, Ps 22:2, "My God, I call by day, and Thou answerest not, And by night, and there is no silence to me.". So any claim to fulfillment of prophesy is already quite strained.

Second, the passage appears early in NT manuscript variants as "Why have you reviled me?" Which begs the question, why? Why would a Christian scribe alter the text? The scribe's motive might possibly explain its original intent. Early Gnostic Christians quoted this verse and understood it as support for the doctrine that the man Jesus was a vessel for a Divine entity that left as Jesus was dying. The popular Gospel of Peter words the quote as: "My power, O power, you have left me."

So Orthodox scribes simply sidestepped the theological debate by altering the text to "why...reviled me?" Is it possible the original writer of Mark had intended something like what the Gnostic Christians understood? We may never know.

It is interesting that the revision of Mark known as Matthew included this passage verbatim but the later revision called Luke dropped it. Perhaps by then the controversy was already brewing.

28

Do You Love The Country You Are In or From?

by minimus in

jw
friends

most people over the generations have taken pride in their heritage, nationality and country they are from.

it’s not uncommon to hear of “proud” italians and proud irish people , as an example.

are you proud of your country and your nationality or do you feel shame or indifference?.

peacefulpete

Minimus.....Loving your country is a lot like loving your parents. When you are a young child you love them and are convinced they can do no wrong. As you mature and learn more you see them as flawed people you disagree with quite often, but can still love them anyway.

Telling people who see flaws and wish to improve their country to simply leave displays a toddler perspective.

32

Does Anybody Here Pray To God?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i’m just curious..

peacefulpete

If I was in a plane that had engine trouble, I'd call my wife and thank her for the life she gave me.

32

Does Anybody Here Pray To God?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i’m just curious..

peacefulpete

Ask any religious person, of any faith, if their prayers are important to them and if they are listened to. Hindus, Muslims, Animists etc, all of them are convinced what they say to the deities is heard and sometimes responded to.

Given this universal belief, a person is forced to decide : (1)all prayers to any deities are equally valuable or perhaps (2) what they believe to be true of worshippers of other deities (deluded and mistaken) is also true of themselves.

17

Education

by jelly in

jw
friends

just a little about me: i live in the usa on the west coast, i am currently going to college, ( i know a lot of brothers dont do this but i have some reasons).

i am curious if any other brothers or sisters are in college, and how everybody feels about school?

peacefulpete

I think he has retired by now.

52

U.K. Nurse Vaccinated With Covid Shot Has Covid Weeks After Getting Vac!

by minimus in

jw
friends

someone i know from england is a nurse.

she told me there was an outbreak at the hospital and she got the virus after being vaccinated.

she said she was told it probably would have been much worse for her had she not gotten vaccinated.

peacefulpete

My Father is taking D as part of his Covid treatment as directed by his doctor. Legitimate studies have shown it's importance with immunity. It is often prescribed or encouraged in responsible doses. It is not a miracle drug, its just one of the ingredients for immune system functioning.

46

Sound Familiar?

by peacefulpete in

a republican congressman voted his conscience to impeach trump.

the results might surprise some of us.. "my dad's cousins sent me a petition - a certified letter - saying they disowned me because i'm in 'the devil's army' now," kinzinger said in a phone conversation on thursday.

"it's been crazy, when you have friends - that you thought were good friends that would love you no matter what - that don't.".

peacefulpete

.Divides have always existed. But a new element is the weaponizing of the internet. The ideal that the internet would be a forum for a healthy exchange of ideas has been smothered by the use of the internet to influence and manipulate. Ugly ideologies, bunk pseudoscience, disinformation profiteering have proliferated unchecked by the traditional restraints of threats of liability and libel. When any charismatic or attractive blogger with a sensational story is seen as an expert, the real experts are ignored and distrusted. Facts and best-information approaches to social issues have a hard time competing in a marketplace of ideas offering 24hr scandal and conspiracy.

What's more, people choose not to fact check, that is proof to me not only of disinformation but successful self imposed information control.

My business involves antiques. We laugh at the quaint and amateurish marketing of generations past. To sell a product they told you about the product. Today's professional influencers and highly paid psychological strategists don't try to sell a product they manipulate buyers. All-pervasive technology has plugged us in to that manipulation many hours a day, endless, relentless, tirelessly competing for our money and minds. Many consumers have grown numb to this with regards products and services but still seem unaware their politics are similarly being shaped. Many so-called news outlets were crafted with influence rather than information as the objective. Truthiness has nearly replaced truth. IMO, Our inherent weakness for confirmation bias and tribal identity have been exploited on a new scale through ubiquitous technology and manipulative marketing.

46

Sound Familiar?

by peacefulpete in

a republican congressman voted his conscience to impeach trump.

the results might surprise some of us.. "my dad's cousins sent me a petition - a certified letter - saying they disowned me because i'm in 'the devil's army' now," kinzinger said in a phone conversation on thursday.

"it's been crazy, when you have friends - that you thought were good friends that would love you no matter what - that don't.".

peacefulpete

A Republican congressman voted his conscience to impeach Trump. The results might surprise some of us.

"My dad's cousins sent me a petition - a certified letter - saying they disowned me because I'm in 'the devil's army' now," Kinzinger said in a phone conversation on Thursday. "It's been crazy, when you have friends - that you thought were good friends that would love you no matter what - that don't."

OR HOW ABOUT:

“He specifically told me, ‘You are no longer my mother, because you are voting for Trump’,” Gomez, 41, a personal care worker in Milwaukee, told Reuters.

The point is, politics can easily become as fanatical as any religion. The dangers of psychological attraction to some consuming group identity and ideology is something former JWs, aware of the pain of loss of family and friends, should be more woke to. But we must be aware it is something we are all susceptible to, there is no vaccine for this all-or-nothing group thinking. Perhaps for some, our experience may even have left us craving a new community similar in its exclusivity and certainty. For some their "new" religion is attacking their old one.

When I read that first quote above this morning it occurred to me that half the country has disfellowshipped the other half. The reasons from both sides are similarly couched in moralizing arguments of good vs evil, us vs. them.

Can't we see clearer than the general population just how much pain this divisive rancorous politics has caused families? My JW father is dying of covid19 in the hospital right now and all this bitterness and contempt surrounding me, religious and political, feels so completely empty.