Posts by Liberty

21

Who is this 'Pistol-Packing Cutie' on the cover of the Watchtower?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

a nice guy named robert de vrije has put a link to his site - http://websitemaker.kennisnet.nl/jehoshuafellowship/index.htm - over at thewatchtower.org.

i can't read dutch so the site is useless to me except for the fact that i am drawn to this wondrful mock-up!.

i don't know why clint eastwood is there or what the significance of the gunslinging girlie is but i love it!.

Did You Ever Think The "End" Was Going To Happen In Your Lifetime"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

although i was considered an exemplary jw, i never really could see it happening.

still don't.

Sorry Minimus, but any JW back in the late 1960's or early 70's who claimed they didn't believe the big "A" would in fact be all over by 1975 was not a "true believer" and to be considered "spiritually sick" or "weak" or even worse... an Apostate. I remember that at an Assembly in 1973 the buzz was that this would be the last Assembly in this "Old System" since the "Thousand Year Reign of Christ" had to commence in '75 in order to fit the WT Society's own time tables so in those next few years it would all be over. When nothing clearly was happening the dates kept getting modified until it was right down to 1975. The concept that '75 would be a "Marked Date" was then floated as a last hope by the Watch Tower that something could happen to keep them from looking like complete asses. This happened for them in 1914 when WWI started but no such luck in '75. There was absolutely nothing to point to as even a "Marked Date" and 1975 was a complete bust for all us JWs and we and the WT Society ended up looking like the complete asses we were. I think that is why many JWs have conned themselves into thinking they never believed in '75 because of the immense shame involved in being so stupid and in admitting that the Society could have been SO wrong.. It is obvious that most JWs did in fact believe it since this was the period of the most rapid growth and intense field service fueled by fear coupled with enthusiasm over the big "A" created this growth, a Fact, plain and simple.

Crumpet made some great points. When you think everything will be destroyed and you will never have a future you make different choices in your life than "Worldly" folks who plan for their futures. I hope Crumpet will have time to recover and live her life to its fullest now. She is a beautiful young woman who deserves her true love and children. I have made great strides in overcoming the mess the Watch Tower cult made of my early life. I am way behind my "Worldly" peers but now have a Universty education, a job, a retirement plan, a house, a partner who can put up with my JW past, and my first child but I had to wait until my mid 40's to get here. So much wasted time. So many wasted lives all for a few old men's fevered pipe dreams. All that the Watch Tower has taught is complete nonsense fact proven by time itself ! We may have believed it once but you can get your life back.

81

The Second Amendment

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i like guns.

i like the feel of them.

i like the fine engineering too.

Liberty

Hi Englishman,

Love your posts. In answer to your concerns, the problem comes when it is a government making the judgements about who exactly "meets the requirements" for firearms ownership. The whole point of the 2nd Amend. from our revolutionary founder's view would be to not trust the government to make this call since they then would still hold all the cards anyway. The 1st Amend. doesn't require any government approval of what should qualify as fit to print or say for this very same reason. Freedom means not having the government regulate these vital means of protecting all the other freedoms.

Crime is always cited as an excuse for taking away all freedoms by big government supporters, yet what is forgotten is that governments throughout history have always been the worst criminals by far surpassing any brutalities that individuals could possibly commit. I trust my friends, co-workers, and nieghbors with weapons far more than a bunch of 18 year olds given just 9 weeks of basic training and brain washing by professional killers. The general population made up of experianced professionals of varius ages and life lessons who know what it is to love deeply, feel loss, raise children, take care of elderly parents, and have felt the weight of real responability are far more trust worthy with weapons than a bunch of brainwashed kids who are still thinking in black in white terms (hence the military's use of such young recruits). The mass murders, tortures, rapes, and thefts commited by governments is staggeringly huge when compared to the few deviants who commit such crimes as individuals in a society. Historically, your chances of being killed by a government is much greater than the off chance you will run into a murderous thug.

The militia as defined by our revolutionary fathers was the whole armed civilian populace which could come together to use their individually controlled weapons in an emergency, not a paid mercenary force armed and controlled soley by the government as in the National Guard which is just another reserve arm of the Federal Government. The 2nd Amend. is a right reserved for individual citizens just like religion, press, etc. and not for the establishment of another government agency like the National Guard.

16

The 1000 Year Stupid Doctrine

by Nosferatu in

to me, the 1000 years that jws promise after armageddon is a really dumb doctrine.

basically, everyone who cacked before armageddon is going to be resurrected, and everyone on earth is going to grow perfect during these 1000 years.

then, bastard jehovah is going to let satan loose for "a little while" to basically clean out any evil that is on the earth.. so, what's the point of paradise erf?

Liberty

When reason and logic are applied to these idiotic Watchtower interpretations their reality evaporates like alcohol on a hot day. Jehoover's ability to "read hearts" or generally to be omniscient is apparently greatly flawed since so many potential naughty folk make it through His screening process. This applies to the 144,000 as well... why do so many who were hand picked by the big "J" go bad and have to be replaced?

I have always found it interesting that super beings like angels who would be smarter than humans and actually have direct contact with and first hand knowledge of Ol' Jehoover Himself, had so many of their numbers risk a rebellion against Him. Obviously there was some chance of winning, otherwise it would have been stupid for them to attempt a rebellion, hence Jehoover is not omnipotent either. It is also great evidence that Jehoover must not be such a nice guy since those who know Him best decided that they didn't like Him pushing them around anymore. How can humans stand a chance of loving such a god since we aren't even sure He exists because there is no direct evidence or knowledge about Him? If the super smart spirit beings He worked with and saw on a dailey basis can't stand Him how are we humans supposed to subject ourselves to His authority?

The whole Devil/demon concept really shows how illogical the Watchtower Universe would be if it were true. If there were any reality to the Watchtower view the Universe would be so irrational and crazy that it would be a waking nightmare and not a Paradise at all. Please destroy me so I wouldn't have to live in this insanity for all eternity.

30

Headaches?????

by whyamihere in

jw
friends

i have been getting headaches for the past year or so.

i have never had this problem in my life with bad headaches.

now it is not huge pain but a 5 out of 10. it is everyday and hits me at 2 pm.. my neck is stiff and it hurts.

Liberty

Many foods contain the flavor enhancer MSG, Mono Sodium Glutimate. This stuff is not good for anyone but in some people, myself included, even small amounts can cause severe migrane-like headaches, and larger amounts cause headaches with nausia, vomiting, hot flashes, skin flushing, and diarrhea. Check your meals & snacks for MSG and ask restaurants if they use it then try eliminating it from your diet to see if this is causing your headaches.

51

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have The Reputation THEY Think They Have?

by minimus in

jw
friends

witnesses believe they are special.

the publications give many examples of how wonderful a witness was viewed upon by a "worldly" person.

kms tell of how so many praise the witnesses for being so "different".....what would you say is the real way people view jws??

Liberty

As far as the vast majority of the world's population goes the JWs have about the same impact as a fart in a hurricane. This was one of many shocks I had when emerging from this cult of self-delusion. As so many have already expressed, the JW cosmology is so esoteric and complex that even most JWs don't understand what they believe in, let alone the public at large. The JW preaching work is a complete failure by any measure. Most of their "theocratic" stratagey was concieved in the 1930's as an enrichment scheme for one man, Judge Rutherford, and it is still stuck there in time. They don't even bother to update the methods used to spread "this life saving" message.Going door to door in an age where both parents work and the kids are at school or day care is a clear waste of time and yet they are still doing it. Their own belief in their self-importance is as delusional as their belief that Armageddon is right around the corner.....if the corner is 120+ years around. They are seen for just what they are, religious nuts crying wolf over and over again to the point where no one is listening.

23

just found out....

by donald in

jw
friends

guys and gals try this one on....i just found out that our local congertion...sold the old hall...with all its acrege...to the local catholic church to become a school.for preist.....i had thought the wtbs was to have no dealings with babylon the great....donald

Liberty

Our old Kingdom Hall was also sold to a Church of evil Christendom. It's "funny" isn't it that an individual JW can't sell Christmas trees( when they are just still trees) or join the YMCA but the holy Watchtower Society can sell buildings to organizations which will use it to practice "false religion" and mislead millions into destruction at the big "A". What hypocrites!!!! When it's their money conscience is no issue but if it is a rank & file JW then it's a big deal where some have lost jobs over things of much less importance than providing churches for the DEVIL and his followers. Just more proof of the LIE which calls itself "the Truth".

9

Jesus' Enthronement, 1914, 1919, or 33 C E. or not at all???

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

if jesus' enthronement has not yet occured and will never occur, this topc is mute.

however if jesus' enthronement did occur according to scripture, when did it actually happen or is it yet future?.

the watchtower society has it occuring in the year 1914 --1919, which time frame is the lynchpin for there organizational existence.

Liberty

This topic is interesting primarily because it really forces the hardcore Watch Tower defender to think about what they are defending. Even if I bought the concept that the W T Society was not a false prophet 100% and was able to disregard their own hype about "the End before the close of the 20th century", " before the passing of the 1914 Generation", 1975, the Cold War, WWII, and 1925 I am still left with the doctrine of Christ's invisible return and presence since 1914. Even if we disregarded all the evidence which clearly states that 1914 is not a real marked date due to the secular chronologies we are still left with a time-doomed doctrine. Why would Christ bother to have His Second Coming in 1914 just so He could sit around and do nothing for nearly 100 years as it relates to the timelines leading to Armeggedon? Since several generations have been born and died already from 1914 onward the significance of His "Presence" begins to resemble the doctrine that many mainstream Christian religions have taught for years, namely, that Christ's Second Coming occured in the distant past (33 CE) and He has continued to rule over the Earthly Christian Kingdom made up of his believers for thousands of years and is unrelated to any End Time events. In essence, if Christ's Presence And rule since 1914 continues with the Big "A" no where near in sight for over 100 years then His presence has nothing to do with Armeggedon. Most of what makes the JWs think they are so special evaporates with every passing year. How any JW can still defend this date as having any special meaning is beyond me.

92

Will reading CoC automatically make me want to leave WTS?

by ljwtiamb in

since i am still active (somewhat).

i have not read the book and you know what the org says about it.

will crisis of conscience surely send me into a tailspin?

Liberty

Hi ljwtiamb,

Nothing can make you automatically leave the WTS. Only an individual JW's common sense and a commitment to truth seeking will allow them to see the WT Society for the white-washed monument to falsehood that it really is. The WTS own claims that seeking the truth was a noble life's goal had instilled in me the seeds of their own udoing in my mind. Long before I had ever heard of Raymond Franz and his books, the World Wide Web, or even touched a computer I had already begun to question the truth behind the "Truth". The journey was a long and painful one but well worth breathing the fresh cold air of reality.

My first clues about the true "heart condition" among the leadership of Watchtowerism was the glaring mismatch between what they told the Rank & File to do and believe and what they did themselves. I'm not talking about a blatent disregard for morality but rather something that was much worse to my mind. They simply never really acted like the World's end was imminent. I found this contradiction stunning and unresolvable. The entire reason that they claim Jehovah had called them all together into the WT Organization in these Last Days was to warn the World that Judgement was fast approaching, and yet, for all their talk and posturing even the local Elders were, by and large, totally invested in the Here and Now of this World.

The WT Society itself was totally complacent about writing off huge areas of the Globe where ever they could not easily send their missionaries. The Communist and Muslim dominated parts of the World encompassing billions of people were all but forgotten in their self proclaimed "World-wide preaching work". The WT Society's lame justification for this was the collective guilt theory which stated that the political leadership which barred JWs from making inroads to these populations were ultimately responsible to Jehovah for the billions who would die at Armagedon. This is hardly the attitude one would expect from true believers who should be willing to risk everything to get in and warn these people of their doom. It was clear to me that maintaining their resources and directing them to the easier converts in the rest of the Free World and Catholic dominated countries was their real goal. I never understood how the Watchtower leadership could make the claim that God's Judgement would be brutal yet fair since all had been given ample chances to repent when billions of people had never even heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible clearly stated that the entire inhabited earth would be warned and then the End would come even if the stones must cry out the warnings. How could the big "A" come without this being fulfilled? No one in the WT Society ever gave me a good answer to that question.

When I told the Elders I wanted to learn Arabic so I could go and warn the Muslim World I was told that this would be a foolish waste of time and to concentrate my efforts in the U.S. Bible belt region I already lived in. I was shocked that they didn't care at all about these people who would be destroyed based only upon the geographic accident of their births. How could a fair God do such a thing? For an Organization whose sole mission is to save as many lives as possible in such a self proclaimed limited amount of time they sure were conservative and cautious in going about it. It was pretty clear that there was no major plan in place for the WT Society to infiltrate these difficult regions and billions would be killed without warning because of the Society's total lack of interest in ever doing so.

The local Elders were also busy with building their own comfortable lives and businesses. Using their gullable flocks as cheap labor they created cleaning businesses or sign shops allowing them to buy large new houses and expand these businesses while they married attractive ladies and proceeded to have children. Hardley the actions of people who were convinced that the World as they knew was soon to end any day now. All the while the Society's publications and the Elders told the R&F that they shouldn't pursue "worldly" goals or get a University education since the End was so near. The bragging reports of the Society's long term buiding projects (some requiring up to 8 years to finish) also made me wonder just how conviced they were that soon the UN would turn on the World's religions and destroy them including the Watchtower and all its physical holdings. It looked to me that even in the mid 1970's that the Society was digging in for the long haul and investing in this World rather than desperaretly saving as many people as possible before the End could overtake them. All the evidence told me that, despite what they insistantly claimed, the WT leadership did not act like they believed Armageddon was near.... so then why should I?

This was just one of many realizations which led to my eventual dismisal of all that the Watchtower's taught and the end of it's control over my life. It would be years later until I found the internet and Ray Franz. His books filled in the gaps and made sense of many things I had only suspected before. I would say that by the time someone reads Franz's books they are already on their way out of Watchtowerism. The Watchtower Society is its own worst enemy because of its many false prophecies, lack of love and conviction, and downright illogical, contradictory, and ever changing doctrines. Ray Franz should be the least of their worries. Intelligent, honest, and sensitive JWs will eventually feel that something is wrong because the WT Society is rotten to the very core and no book is needed to tell them that.. As these honest people of conviction leave the rotteness just becomes more apparent.

50

Is Michael Jackson INNOCENT??

by breeze in

i am sure this is not new topic, but today seems to open the ???

, is he just a target because of his wierd behavier.. i want to think he is innocent????.

the press in this country is sometimes off the center of the subject.....maybr not representing the real truth....???.

Liberty

Michael Jackson is, at the very least, guilty of an abnormally huge amount of poor judgement. I think any adult should be free to keep pornography laying around their bedrooms if they are so inclined BUT NOT if your bedroom is used as a sleep over "clubhouse" for children. Not to mention that sexually normal men in their mid 40's do not want their bedrooms to become sleep over "clubhouses" for little boys in the first place, even if they are very innocently fond of children.

His guilt is especially clear considering that Jackson lived in a huge mansion with dozens of large rooms which could have easily been used as sleep over/play areas without ever venturing into his private bed chamber stocked with "adult" material and alcoholic beverages. Even if we bought his "Peter Pan" image, Jackson's behaviour should cause us to question why he insists on bringing little boys into his adult oriented bedroom for sleep overs since he could easily afford to equip any room he wanted with child-appropriate entertainment and refreshments. Jackson even claims to have slept on the floor in a sleeping bag while his "guests" used his bed. This makes some sense if you are poor and only have 1 bed but since Jackson could easily equip any number of rooms with state-of-the-art beds his sleeping bag story is just plain unbelievable. I am 43 and the thought of choosing to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag when a comfortable bed can easily be had is just plain silly cosidering middle aged bodies don't react well to sleeping on the floor.

I really like children but it is clear that Mr. Jackson's "love" of young boys is more a dangerous obsession than a longing for his lost childhood. Most of us who love being around children understand that our interests and the children are better served by becoming a Big Brother volunteer or a Boy Scout leader rather than inviting the kids over to our bedrooms for pornography and some wine. Since Jackson has never shown any sexual interest in adult women we can only assume the pornography serves another purpose, primarily to exite young boys. Sexually stimulated young boys at a sleep over is not what the average man in his mid forties dreams about on cold lonely nights.

Pop stars who have access to hundreds of beautiful adult women should balance their time between children's charity and adult recreations mutually exclusive from one another. The fact that Jackson spends the bulk of his time and fortune sleeping over with little boys rather than having adult relationships should tell us something about where his true sexual interests lie. The fact that his two "wives" continued to live in their own homes, one in fact hundreds of miles away from Neverland and Jackson, tells us the true state of his possible romantic encounters with these adult women. The fact that the children he claims to have fathered all appear to be white and look nothing like his pre-plastic surgery genetic self also belies the reality of his sexual interests in adult women, namely, that women are not even worth sleeping with for procreation let alone recreation.