i'm a really big eckhart tolle follower, and recently i was rereading a new earth and i showed my dubby this proverb he mentioned, which kind of bothered him when i explained it.. "the hand pointing to the moon is not the moon.".
he didn't quite get it, so i explained that it basically means that just because a man, or religion, is pointing out god to you, it doesn't mean you worship the man or religion.
he didn't seem to want to debate it because he didn't have an answer or counter point.. also while explaining the path tolle shows (pragmatic explainations of age-old beliefs, from jesus to buddah, they all said the same things), he said he didn't think tolle believed in god.
Lol...seeds of doubt, huh? Okay, how's this for one? After growing up being told that dinosaurs only ate trees and ROCKS (!) I showed my parents where someone had found the fossils of a dinosaur...with another dinosaur in it's belly. Lol. They were VERY disturbed. It's funny the things that bother people.... none of the failed prophecies, etc, bothered them, but the idea that dinosaurs ate meat did.
Anyone else raised being told that dinos were rockivores?
so, this might be more for those of us who were strong in the jw faith and possibly anyone who was strong in any other faith lie lds for example.
so we were all told that we need to believe, and be strong in that belief, and love what we believe, even to the point of death.
so you work on that.
You're not crazy. I think probably most of us went through that...If I'm wrong, well I guess we can be crazy together or something. Forgive me such a brief and worthless response...I just woke up. Gotta go change the diaper's baby.
Wait....
this morning at 8:30, my mother decides to come into my room.
i was lying on my bed reading a book.. mum: i need to tell you something.
mum: please don't commit immoral sin.. me: umm... what are you talking about?
Something to think about: I've also been diagnosed with PTSD, stemming from my childhood experiences as a JW!
It doesn't make you weak. Growing up in a cult does all kinds of damage; you have to acknowledge that before you can help yourself. After you do, it makes things make more sense and helps you to feel more in control. I understand not wanting that label, though... It's hard to think of yourself that way. At first I thought my therapist was just being silly. Lol.
so as you da'd, were df'd, faded, or just mentally let go of everything you believed for so long, did you experience this weird transition phase of an "identitylessness"?
i think this might only apply to people who were "strong" in the faith.
as a strong witness, im sure those of us who were really took to heart and mind the things that we learned and counsel that the society produced.
I did feel the loss of...well, myself. Being born in, I was pretty much raised to do one thing - preach the word of God (the GB). When I left I realized I didn't know how to do anything else. To be perfectly honest, I'm still struggling with finding something to do with myself...I still have not completed my education.
As for morals, well, even when I was a JW, I never understood the concept that people would only be good if they were afraid that God was watching, waiting to swoop down and punish them. I can be a good person by myself, without the threat of imminent death!
As for religion, I have none and have never been happier! I understand it's draw for other people, but I don't have that draw myself. I'm agnostic, if anything. I honestly have never been happier than when I let go of all religion. And through all the terrible things I've been through, I haven't been tempted to turn back to the belief in God. :)
I'm not sure if any of that was what you're looking for lol. I am seriously sleep deprived!
this morning at 8:30, my mother decides to come into my room.
i was lying on my bed reading a book.. mum: i need to tell you something.
mum: please don't commit immoral sin.. me: umm... what are you talking about?
First of all, geeks are hot! Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. :)
Second, the above posters are correct, your mom is probably just in agony - in her mind, Armageddon is coming next Wednesday and Jehovah's gonna smush you into a messy, geek paste. I am blessed to have a good relationship with my mother now - but she still makes a point to tell me all the time how she prays every day that I'll come back, because she knows I'm going to die. It's hard to hear stuff like that. And no one can cut us down like our mothers can!
Something that's important to remember is that people who are mentally ill in various ways are attracted to the organization; and since the GB discourages treatment (I once had my brother tell me I shouldn't be seeing a therapist because she might encourage me to do immoral things) these illnesses just explode into growth. This could also be part of your mother's problem.
As for her showing you highlighted text about how she can't talk to you - she's wrong. If you are still living with her, she can talk to you like normal, you can even spend time together and eat your meals together. The ONLY thing she is not supposed to talk to you about is spiritual things. Sounds backwards, right? But whatever.
I completely feel you that you didn't "click" with your counselor/therapist... Some years ago, when I was first having these difficulties and bursting into tears "for no reason," I started seeing someone. It was through a program that made it almost free - awesome, right? Well...not so much. She turned out to be an uber-Christian which made me uncomfortable because she had certain expectations of me - every time I mentioned losing my faith, she'd INTERRUPT ME (gasp) to say, "Oh but you haven't lost it - don't say that. You're still a Christian. You're just not a JW anymore." She had scriptures hanging all over her walls and wouldn't let me be anything but a Christian. Soooo I stopped going. Didn't help much. Now however, I am seeing someone again and it's helping much more. It's still almost free. There are community services seemingly all over the place so you can see someone low-cost. However, since you live in Asia I'm not sure what the situation is. I've always read that the attitude towards mental and emotional troubles there is more or less "If we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist." Then AGAIN, I think I read that in Awake! magazine sooo... forgive my immense ignorance!
My heart goes out to you. I'm so happy for you that you ARE getting an education - I have so far been unable to. I was homeschooled from an early age and not very well. (Your books came in! Here...go...do them, or something.) You have a lot going for you. The pain your mother/family/congregation is inflicting on you will never go away. But in time it will become bearable. And we're all going through it to varying degrees which makes this site such a treasure - no one can understand what you're going through like another ex-JW.
ok, so i finally picked up coc from my local library last night.
and started reading it like crazy.
i think i read about 70 pages which brought me close to the end of the second chapter: "governing body".
I'm excited for you, getting to read it for the first time. Lol. Good luck.
let's say you're an active witness (well, you guys were, or are active witnesses) and you look around you.
practically every appliance, invention, whatever, most of the food, all the new discoveries, virtually everything was made by worldlies.
it's been that way for thousands of years.
Duh....God will magically load the knowledge of how to manufacture windows right into their dubbie brains. Lol... :)
But yess.....I remember when Katrina hit (I am from New Orleans but wasn't living there) I donated $100 to the Red Cross... when my father found out, he was furious. So was my sister. They couldn't understand why I'd give money to a worldly organization and let the brothers go without! (!!!) Gah.
And I just realized that even today I'm not sure exactly what YMCA is or why my parents always told me it was a very bad place and I must never, ever go there. Then again...my father also told me to run if anyone ever tried to give me a book by this guy "Raymond Franz, the Apostate." So... maybe they're not that reliable.
ok, so i finally picked up coc from my local library last night.
and started reading it like crazy.
i think i read about 70 pages which brought me close to the end of the second chapter: "governing body".
Um...keep reading! CoC has been the most important book I have read in my life. Ray Franz became a hero to me - not because of all he went through, or that he stood up to them, or even that he had the presence of mind to keep track of everything to write a book on it. He is a hero to me because of his humility, his kindness, his compassion...so few people manage to write about their experiences with the organization without bitterness and/or exaggeration. But he was able to do so. His love for these people shines right out of the text...I don't think he was searching for a pat on the back or that he ever "ranted" about anything. Or that he wrote this book to promote his or push his own beliefs on other people.
With all of us I think there are one or two things that jump out at us from the organization's teachings to really make us sit up and think. Then when our eyes are opened all of a sudden we see so many of the other things that are wrong with it. I think the book is just Ray's journey through that. He takes you through his intial "AHA!" moment and then he turns his attention to all the other things he witnessed.
And it's not a book solely for Christians by any means - I no longer consider myself Christian but his book remains a treasure to me. I hope you continue to read and that some of the information you find helps you. Thank you for starting this topic...I think I feel inclined to open up my copy and read it again!
considering the fact we've had so many newbies here i thought it would be good to just open it up to you folks to see how life is going for you since you exited the witnesses ?
it's hard many times to move on- however with lots of ex-witnesses on the board here who have been through similar experiences - perhaps those of us who have been out awhile can give you someideas on how to move on in your post jw life to make it a little easier .
so fire away newbies and recently exited jw 's.
The good: I am happier with myself than I ever have been. I no longer feel the shame of sitting by quietly (while screaming in my head) while people joyfully discuss how God will soon kill everyone in the world but Jehovah's Witnesses. I have found a good man who is patient with my struggles, and understanding. Plus he is nothing like the "typical" JW father figure/husband I noticed among so many families. He never screams at me, belittles me, or hits me. He supports me in everything I do and that is a new and wonderful feeling.
The bad: I am still struggling with... let's say, emotional distress. I was one of the homeschooled kids - taken out of school in the fifth grade after I ran away from home - and BECAUSE I ran away from home, I was considered "bad association" for some time, and so the Witness kids wouldn't really be friends with me anymore. Not to make this post my life story or anything! (Brace yourselves for that one!) The point is, I developed no social skills. I don't know to this day how to interact with people correctly and successfully. I have severe anxiety and panic. I have PTSD (according to my therapist, anyway). I have nightmares and night terrors. Sometimes I wonder if I am simply "weak minded" to have let it affect me so much. Then I remember how unusually complete my isolation was, even for a Witness child.
A bit more good, and then the just plan ugly: I still have my parents, and that's great. My brother was diagnosed with cancer about a year before I "came out," if you will (by necessity - not by choice). He was thirty. He made it through, and hopefully won't get sick again. But I believe his battle made my parents examine what was truly important to them. So that when I told them of my decision, they simply expressed love for me, and the hope that I would come back, but more importantly, the promise to love me no matter what - what I'd always dreamed of from them, and never believed I'd be able to have. My father expresses his thanks often to my fiance (a "worldly" man), for loving me and caring for me through these difficult times. Now for the ugliest: I was doing really well, building a social life, working a job, interacting with new people happily and successfully: and then I was betrayed by a friend. She had got herself DF'ed, and she finally realized she'd burned all her bridges. So she started telling lies about me to her mother (my boss!) to make me their common enemy and one thing led to another...I was fired. Twice. And they caused trouble as well at my fiance's workplace.
So, I guess I WAS doing really well on my exit, and then that happened, and it set me back very, very far. It still causes me immense pain...I knew her for fifteen years, and I called her mother "Mom." Her dad used to give me an allowance when he'd give his kids theirs. Lol. I'd always felt they were my "true" family, the one I'd chosen for myself. But not only did they shun me; they attempted (and more or less succeeded) to ruin my life in every way they could. So...I'm still reeling from that one and trying to deal with my anxiety, etc.
But, I am endlessly thankful still that I left the organization. It was the best thing I ever did. ...I have to sign off for now, thank you for starting this topic!
... has gone to a district convention based on one of the invitations in the annual campaign?
my convention is held about 3 hours from where i live so i doubt it has gotten anybody to go to the convention.
i'm not even sure what the purpose of it is.
In all likelihood it's just something else to keep the dubs busy so they have no time to really study, think or question, right? Like telephone witnessing and writing letters.
