who else thinks something is afoot with this?
is the gb deciding to go back to pre-1971 times with perhaps the cobe as the man in charge and the rest just ministerial servants.
so for this reason they want younger men in those postitions?
If the mandatory put-to-pasture rules applies to the GB (and that's a big "if"), one could reason it's an effort by the current GB to avoid situations where GB members were barely lucid and wore diapers yet still held sway over the body.
If it doesn't apply to the GB, your guess is as good as mine.
being pushed by religion since the 17th century.
my question is why ?.
Below is in many respects the same reasoning used to arrive at the 1914 date, except this particular chart failed in 1844 and resulted in the Great Disappointment. The end didn't come as promised.
Charles T Russell picked it up, changed a few start dates and landed on 1914 as the year the end would come. That, too, failed, but his followers were able to convince millions that they actually predicted something different altogether, the beginning of the "end times." Here we are 100 years later (and 170 years after the Great Disappointed) and millions of Witnesses around the world cling to this belief.
100 years from now they (or a group just like them) will cling to a modified version of the same damn thing.
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who would have thought that enough people would raise their hands when the resolution was put before the congregation tonight?
based on the pledges that the publishers put on those little pieces of paper, the congregation is promising the wts that they will send $1,000/month to support the society's building funds.. there is a traditional monthly shortfall of about $100 with the basic monthly bills usually around $1,000.
i didn't raise my hand.
During the late 90s my congregation would pass a yearly resolution to send our prorated share of the CO's car lease/health inurance expense. It was usually in the neighborhood of $800. Invariably, the congregation would not raise enough money to cover it.
I was assistant account servant at the time and it was pretty typical to collect somewhere between 20-40 dollars each meeting. Every now and then a borderline inactive publisher would write a check for $100 (as a way to atone for their "weakness?"), which helped make ends meet. The hall was paid for and was shared by 4 congregations, so monthly expenses were in the 300-400 dollar range if I remember correctly.
Since the congregation never could come up with the money to pay the $800 or so for the CO expense, panicked meetings were held because the elders would have to cover the expenses out of their own funds if the congregation couldn't come up with the money. There were 3 or 4 of them and all of them lived paycheck to paycheck. They didn't have a few hundred dollars lying around to cover it. I believe the elders and ministerial servants ended up agreeing to share the expense among themselves (which would amount to about $100 a piece).
In short, it was a huge burden, but no one ever suggested not passing the resolution in the first place. It just wasn't something that crossed your mind. Eventually headquarters started paying that out of worldwide funds and stopped making the local congregations cover it. It was a huge relief for all involved.
I suspect a scenario like the above will play out on a much larger scale worldwide as a result of this new arrangement.
i just watched a rerun of the twilight zone episode where billy mumy played an omnipotent boy named anthony.. everyone had to pretend that anything he did was wonderful even if it terrified them.. they had to do anything to please him so as not to incur his wrath.. one guy got sick of it and told him off.. he begged the others to end the nightmare by killing the kid and thereby getting their lives back.. when they did nothing, the boy turned him into a jack-in-the-box and sent him into a cornfield.. the other adults were horrified, but smiled and told anthony it was a fine, fine thing that he just did.. when i saw it this time, it reminded me of how the wts functions.. the gb claims divine authority to run every aspect of jws' lives.. those who stand up to it are demonized and cast away.. the rest have to suppress any negative feelings and be "happified," lest they suffer the same fate..
I'm a big fan of The Twilight Zone.
Here's a link to a thread I started a few years ago about a different episode:
The episode may be viewed by clicking the following link:
the feeling that you're never good enough.
the feeling that you're wicked and evil.. .
because i'd give anything not to feel this way.
After leaving did the feeling go away?
It took years and it was gradual. It was awkward at first even to allow myself the pleasure of watching television for an hour or two. The conditioning would automatically kick in. There was guilt associated with that activity since in my former life such things were detractions from "spiritual pursuits." I'd even feel guilty going to lunch with female co-workers since nearly all interactions with the opposite in the JW world were associated with sex (or the opportunity for sex). Sadly, in all these years not once have any of these lunches led to sex...sigh.
It's been about 10 years or so since I started having doubts, 7 or 8 years since I stopped being a believer, but even still every now and then the programming surfaces. About a year ago work travel took me to a foreign country. I was at a restaurant with a large group of people when my boss indicated she wanted to order blood sausage for the table. I froze up. In all these years, the blood ban may be the one taboo I've never broken. The fear and panic kicked in and for a few seconds it was as if I was a JW all over again. My boss decided against ordering it, but I have no doubt that if I had eaten it, I would have awoken at night several times feeling guilty, just as I had years ago when I first had my first cigarette, had sex out of wedlock, smoked marijuana, and so on.
Hang in there. There's light at the end of the tunnel.
well in light of the 17 billion calls i got this week my wife and i decided to attend the meeting.
it was nuts!
we got love bombed right when we got there.
The transformation one goes through is truly amazing.
There was a time when going to an assembly was truly refreshing for me. I'd take down notes and come away inspired.
Once I started to wake up, I couldn't bear sitting there, listening to the nonsense, and watching everyone just nod their heads in agreement.
I remember sitting at the hall during a CO visit in which he said that there was some African country whose name he mangled where 40-something percent of the population was infected with AIDS, and nobody seemed to understand that his stat was complete bullshit. People just assumed it had to be right because he's a CO after all. There was another occasion where an elder went on about how horrible it was that gay marriage was now legal (at the time it wasn't legal in any state). Again, nobody cared. It just got to be too much for me to put up with.
i decided to give crisis of conscience another read (its been about 11 yrs).
this interesting quote stood out.
the scriptural arrangement.
I doubt it. The higher up you move, the more dependent you are on them for all your physical needs (not to mention social status). I would think almost all men in that position would do exactly as told to preserve their position.
the constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.
but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.
one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.
I don't have anything against blue-collar workers. I was one for many years. My parents have been blue-collar workers their entire lives. And it's true that the attacks are often personal in nature. There are a lot of talented witnesses who never fully capitalized on their talents due to terrible advice given by WT leadership.
However, the problem is with the Watchtower sending these men to address issues that should be addressed by professionals. You wouldn't call a psychiatrist to unclog your toilet. Why would you send a plumber to counsel the mentally ill?
There was a teenager at our hall who was clearly suffering from severe mental problems. I remember one of the elders talking about how he had gone to counsel the family because the boy was hearing voices telling him to kill his mother. They prayed with the family and encouraged them to throw away any possessions that might be connected to spiritism. The elder was a welder.
This is a real concern and it can't be addressed without making specific reference to the men being completely unqualified.
watchtower has said that jesus is not the mediator of anyone but for the anointed.
then they tell you that they are jehovah's organization and that the flock should obey them.. basically, the watchtower corp. and it's governing body is taking the place of jesus as the mediator for people.
christianity, even by it's name, focuses on making jesus known.
There is a very old doctrine called the Mystery Doctrine, which according to some, the GB still believes, although they haven't printed anything on it for decades. According to this doctrine, the anointed are "the Christ." Under this view, the anointed (who used to be the FDS) were very much the same thing as Jesus himself.
This thread from Terry is worth re-visiting:
Regardless of whether or not this is still official doctrine, at a minimum you get a flavor for why people often get the general feeling you describe.
Here's an excerpt from Terry's thread:
Writing in his book, "Apocalypse Delayed" Penton tells us:
"The Mystery, as understood by Pastor C.T. Russell, meant not only had Jesus offered himself as a ransom sacrifice for mankind, but the body of Christ, the 144,000 members of his church also participated in the ransoming and atoning work" [pg 40]
He went on to say :
"Pastor Russell divined the mediator for the New Covenant was "the Christ" and that expression meant the 144,000 actually participated in Christ's sacrifice for the world" [pg 187 of "Apocalypse Delayed"]
Going back to Russell’s day, the original idea was a distinction between "Christ," who is Jesus, and "the Christ," which is composed of Head (Jesus) and Body (all spirit-begotten Christians).
In Rutherford's day, those who partake of the bread and wine belong to "the Christ" and who share in the glory of Christ (the mystery doctrine).
been lurking for a while on here and thought i'd jump in.
a great deal of many thoughtful posts on here but have to say am a bit turned off with the 'rabid apostate' ones!.
my history- was raised in a divided household, mum converted to jw when pregnant with me back in 1970, dad was never jw but was supportive of taking us to meetings, assemblies etc.
A great deal of many thoughtful posts on here but have to say am a bit turned off with the 'rabid apostate' ones!
It's the internet. You're gonna have people saying outlandish things regardless of whether it's a forum on religion, sports, gardening or some other topic. As a reference, just take a look at the comments page on your typical online news story.
That being said, I understand the frustration. But there are a lot of incredibly bright and insightful people on here as well. I've learned a lot from this site, even if it's a little extra work sifting through some of the more hysterical topics and other subjects that simply don't interest me.
Welcome aboard. Good luck on your journey.
