Posts by OnTheWayOut

48

Healing & Rebuilding Your Life - Feedback Wanted

by jp1692 in

i have been invited to speak at an international cultic studies association workshop this fall.

i could use your help in focusing on my presentation subject.. these workshops are for former members of any cult or other high-control, authoritarian group, not just jehovah's witnesses.

last year, i spoke at one of their larger conferences in europe.

OnTheWayOut

I know you asked for feedback and I hope all these different thoughts helped. In the end you know your topic and you will have to decide how much time to dedicate to each of these things.

With your subject title, Healing & Rebuilding Your Life, you kind of have to cover your step 1, but it could be as little as a general statement like "Everything you knew to be true was a lie. Now what?"

You don't want to offer any judging on the differing paths people take upon leaving, turning to God in another way or turning from God, but just emphasize that finding your path and yourself is important. There are many ways to say that. Loaded language might be a ln important part of that.

I also had little trouble breaking from the language mentality. I think it was because I got out of the military to join the cult, and had already broken from one language set. I also read Steve Hassan books and COC and made myself aware of the loaded language.

As I meet others, I see many still caught in cult thinking as revealed by their cult language- 'the truth,' 'field service,' 'in good standing,' etc. So I suppose #2 is part of #5. We have to examine ourselves to start finding our authentic self.

Good luck.

28

I don't get why some point to the no tolerance for gays and subjugation of women as a JW thing.

by blownaway in

some churches have taken the step to allow gays, women instructing men ect.

but its not a jw thing.

its a bible thing.

OnTheWayOut

Intentional, TD

48

Healing & Rebuilding Your Life - Feedback Wanted

by jp1692 in

i have been invited to speak at an international cultic studies association workshop this fall.

i could use your help in focusing on my presentation subject.. these workshops are for former members of any cult or other high-control, authoritarian group, not just jehovah's witnesses.

last year, i spoke at one of their larger conferences in europe.

OnTheWayOut

OTWO: so are you saying that you think “Treatments & Interventions” is the most important issue for people that have left a cult? What do you think is the least important from my list and why?

Every person's situation is different. In such a captive audience, people may have experience with your steps 1&2 and maybe 3, so I would focus on 4-6 to highlight more of moving on with a positive life.

But that's just my thoughts.

20

Is the Earth really that great?

by DATA-DOG in

i enjoy watching nature documentaries; david attenborough being my favorite host and narrator.

that being said, i’ve come to the conclusion that contrary to xianity’s teaching, the earth is not “perfectly placed/designed for life.” .

when you actually observe the world at large, without blinders, it’s a wonder that life even exists.

OnTheWayOut

Science does not yet know if Earth is extremely unique or just another planet in the Green Zone, a condition of habitability for a planet based on mostly whether liquid water could be found there, but taking other factors into consideration.

Even when a planet is habitable, life had to start there (or be transplanted there). And its a long set of circumstances that leads from primordial soup to oceans and forests and the like. You need the spark of life to develop according to the available conditions.

Earth benefits from its large moon and medium star and its axis and time of rotation and all kinds of other factors.

Time will tell, but most likely not in our lifetimes, if life is so resilient as to succeed in completely different environments or if there are other planets similar enough where the spark took off. With so many stars in just our galaxy and so many galaxies, I'm betting on a bit of both (resilience of life and other earth-like plsnets) making us not so unique.

28

I don't get why some point to the no tolerance for gays and subjugation of women as a JW thing.

by blownaway in

some churches have taken the step to allow gays, women instructing men ect.

but its not a jw thing.

its a bible thing.

OnTheWayOut

Xanthippe: Many Christians, and I'm not one of them btw being an atheist, try to accept the Bible as the work of imperfect men guided by God.

They're not fundamentalists so don't believe every word literally. They try to bring Christianity up to date with compassion. It's not the way I wanted to go but I can see where they're coming from.

While I might feel that the Bible doesn't allow for such a view of itself, because it declares itself "God's Word," that does seem like a natural evolution of Christian belief.

Eastern relgion has a history of gods and godesses and beliefs and rituals, and has evovled to people feeling free to reject and accept what parts they want. Many are diwn to accepting wisdom and ritual or meditation alone, but have dismissed the supernatural aspect. So I guess Christians might do the same.

But the Bible is just so loaded with ammunition for various hatreds and for the belittling of women. When groups still have to debate how far to accept 'the word,' better to scrap it in my opinion.

32

Apostate - what does the word mean to you?

by Tallon in

over a period of time i got to thinking - what does the word 'apostate' mean to me.

having given it some thought, this is my view;.

the org has given the word its own definition and basically use it to demonise people and consider them pariahs.. however, the jw meaning of 'apostate' is a mere word and only has power if recognised as such.

OnTheWayOut

To Watchtower, an apostate abandons their so-called "true worship" and shares their thoughts on how and why they've abandoned it.

The dictionary definition is close: One who abandons a religious or political belief or principle.

The difference is that there is no judgement in the real definition.

I embrace the label. I did indeed abandon the religion. It's not as dramatic as homosexuals embracing the negative intentions of the word "queer" and calling it positive, but it would be similar.

48

Healing & Rebuilding Your Life - Feedback Wanted

by jp1692 in

i have been invited to speak at an international cultic studies association workshop this fall.

i could use your help in focusing on my presentation subject.. these workshops are for former members of any cult or other high-control, authoritarian group, not just jehovah's witnesses.

last year, i spoke at one of their larger conferences in europe.

OnTheWayOut

I think many need to hear that it may be important to seek professional help, that if they do not do this for whatever their reason, at least follow up on self-help via reading books and perhaps finding other former members to vent with.

6

The Samuel Herd story may 8 wt mag

by waton in

i talked to this simple man once in florida, where racial tension linger.

i can see why a sympathetic worker with a proven record as pioneer would end up in the top ranks, the hope being, that his effectiveness would rub off on the enterprise.

it shows that whoever runs wt does not count on the governing body to really run the enterprise.

OnTheWayOut

I don't have any details other than my opinion on this, but Ted Jaracz loaded the GB with "yes-men" to do his bidding over the years when he had enough pull. So with his passing and the passing of many others, the whole thing is loaded with incapable men, relying on someone else to direct them.

7

Evangelicals and Unbelievers

by Boredposter in

i have been noticing a distinct difference in reaction to those who leave christianity among evangelicals and jehovah's witnesses.

when i left jwism there wasn't much effort to correct me.

i know this is not a surprise to any of you.

OnTheWayOut

While "Christianity" is a broad term, most of it is still not at all like the dangerous mind control that Jehovah's Witnesses are. So of course the way they react would be different.

54

Explain why you are happy if you believe there is no afterlife vs when you joined JW's

by Bad_Wolf in

one thing that has intrigued me are so many who have left, who are wholly convinced everything in existence is merely by chance now, also claim they wouldn't want to live forever, and perfectly fine if this is the only life.

now, i would understand that if you were raised into the religion.

i was raised into it.

OnTheWayOut

I joined JW's as an adult with childhood exposure to it. So I bought into the "everlasting-life" thing for awhile.

Opening post says: "The reality you are embracing now is the worst case scenario of when you were in it, eternal death. But if you joined it of your own accord and not raised in it, why did you want eternal life then and now say you would never want it?"

One huge problem with your statement is that the reality of our futures does not depend on what we believe. It is what it actually is. I bought into their promise but then realized it isn't true. So regardless of what another person thinks I am "embracing," it has little to do with what will actually happen. I learned not only that the Watchtower's promises are lies, but that people have been using the Bible to promote lies since the Bible was written.

You can say I don't know what the future after death is. For an absolute certainty, I cannot prove that I do know it. But we live and we die, we exist no more. If that is wrong, then some megalomaniac demanding my licking his boots during this life to grant me part of that afterlife while he is practicing his high level neglect of mankind, it's just not worth it to me.