OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  35

  Bible is good if we look for implied truth

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  thumbs-up gesture doesn’t covey much if we see only four fingers closed and thumb standing upward.

  but if we look for the implied meaning, then it is a positive, informal signal indicating a job well done, and saying ‘keep it up.’.

  similarly, biblical accounts don’t convey much if we see them as mere accounts.

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  OnTheWayOut

  The story of the garden has no implied truths.
  
  1) God warned Adam and Cain before they could act—this communication had no effect on both of them—one perfect and the other imperfect.
  
  Wrong. It's fiction that our understanding of genetics and how long humans have been on the earth have sufficiently proven to be untrue. If there was a hidden message in this fiction, it was put there by the priestly leaders that wrote or edited it- that the "God" of humans is a real SOB so y'all better do what "He" says thru his religious leaders.
  
  2) God performed great miracles over the Israelites, and Jesus too did the same—yet they had no effect on the people who simply preferred Barabbas to Jesus. Implied truth is that people would not change their course of action no matter what God communicates to them or does in favor of them.
  
  Wrong. Great miracles are used to insist that the religious teachings must be from God. It is written that the people still failed to listen after miracles to imply that they were too stubborn to change and that the reader of this story should be even less stubborn in the light of no current miracles.
  
  3) In Genesis 11:6, 7 we find God speaking about the ability of humans
  
  I like your thoughts. Let me add that I believe the point was to say that humans were able to accomplish much without God's guidance, but took it in the wrong direction. This was written/edited by the priests to tell people again that they should just do as the priests representing God tell them.
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  19

  Police Welfare Check

  by JRK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i awoke in the middle of the night to banging on my door.

  i went to the door half asleep and asked who was there.

  i heard “police.” my dog was going crazy, so i slipped outside to talk to them.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I am an emergency worker and in my state, we CAN do wellness checks that even include breaking into a home.
  It is done for supposedly good reasons, so we don't have a legal barrier. We do have to give an opportunity for the person to answer the door, it isn't a search warrant type of situation. But when they don't answer, we are going in.

  Clearly, these officers did not spend enough time with you to be sure there wasn't a mental health issue. (Hey, you gotta joke sometimes.)
  
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  18

  God is not the creator

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every theory (including darwin’s) primarily proves someone has to design a theory; every product primarily proves someone has to design it.

  when neil armstrong and buzz aldrin landed on the moon it primarily proved intelligence of many people had to design that moon-mission.. 1) if every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not).

  science shows human body is like a complex machinery with many departments/systems (such as respiratory, digestive, cardiovascular/circulatory, renal/urinary, endocrine, nervous, musculoskeletal, integumentary/exocrine, lymphatic/immune, reproductive etc.

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  OnTheWayOut

  OnTheWayOut

  That is what the OP heading means "God is not the Creator", and that is what the concluding verse means: Within each human body, there is a creator.
  
  Um....okay.
  I am not sure what your message here is. You seem to stay speaking in broad philosophical terms. I might be on the same side of the overall issue, but I feel your conclusions are too broad and unsupported:
  
  

  • 1)Everyone knows what action of others make them happy/sorrowful which means everyone knows how they should act towards others.
    
    There are mentally ill people, there are sadists, there are masochists, there are psychopaths. Everyone does not know how they should act toward others.

    2)Some parts of earth is already like paradise which means humans know how to make the whole earth paradise, if they want to.
    
    There are not agreed upon terms for "paradise." If you mean that untouched soil on remote tropical islands is paradise and I mean that mansions with paved roads must be included, we are already starting down different paths, let alone others' ideas that paradise would include self indulgence of varying types.
    Even agreeing upon what part of earth is most paradise-like (paradisiacal), it doesn't mean we could figure out how to make all parts of the planet like that.

    3)Some countries have never partaken in any war from their very inception which means other countries know how to go about without war if they really want.
    
    "Countries" don't know anything, including how to go with or without war. If you mean that one country stays out of wars, it doesn't allow for an automatic conclusion that all countries can stay out of war. Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is not supported.

    4)Knowledge of God is not required for anyone to be a good person because all sorts of people are found among both the groups—theists and atheists.
    
    I fully agree with that one. It is proven. Opponents will argue on the definition of "good."

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  18

  God is not the creator

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every theory (including darwin’s) primarily proves someone has to design a theory; every product primarily proves someone has to design it.

  when neil armstrong and buzz aldrin landed on the moon it primarily proved intelligence of many people had to design that moon-mission.. 1) if every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not).

  science shows human body is like a complex machinery with many departments/systems (such as respiratory, digestive, cardiovascular/circulatory, renal/urinary, endocrine, nervous, musculoskeletal, integumentary/exocrine, lymphatic/immune, reproductive etc.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I share scratchme1010's thoughts. The opening post makes incredible leaps as it jumps to conclusions that are not based on anything at all.

  If your incredible leaps were valid, then let me draw them out to one more inescapable conclusion.

  "If every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not)."

  This leads to an endless series of "creators." If "someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed [humans]," then
  "someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed [that designer/creator]."
  

  And it would go on and on, using your own conclusions. Since that is not logical and sensible, the original premise must be flawed.
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  18

  Does This Site Ever Change The Mind of “Spiritual “ Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think witnesses who come here believe that in fact they don’t have the truth, after all.

  or are we just preaching to the choir?

  ?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  For some reason, my current posts have been dropping everything after the "quote" portions. I will have to do something different.

  I had asked if "a watcher" wonders why s/he cannot get information from the organization.
  
  Then I went on to say that I wanted to answer Minimus' opening question about my own circumstances-
  I found this forum when I was heavily doing internet research to free myself from the Watchtower. I may have already been prime to learn the truth about "the truth" but this site took my growing doubt and helped me learn so much more. I did not know that Fred Franz' nephew had written a book. I didn't know anything much about the library card excuse. I knew a little about Watchtower charging for parking at conventions, but I didn't realize just how deceitful they were about it.
  
  I am sure plenty of folks have come away with many doubts answered, which helped solidify their feelings about the religion.
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  18

  Does This Site Ever Change The Mind of “Spiritual “ Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think witnesses who come here believe that in fact they don’t have the truth, after all.

  or are we just preaching to the choir?

  ?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  a watcher-
  I'm here for info that I can't get on jw.org., such as letters to elders and info on child molestation lawsuits.
  My faith in Jehovah remains intact.
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  18

  Does This Site Ever Change The Mind of “Spiritual “ Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think witnesses who come here believe that in fact they don’t have the truth, after all.

  or are we just preaching to the choir?

  ?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  It's mostly "the choir" here but certainly, if someone stays long enough, they want to be convinced. Other than a couple of over-the-top "Christians" who have passed through here to convert the heathens, and us confirmed ex-JW's, visitors here want/need something they aren't getting at the Kingdom Hall.
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  37

  My Cognitive Dissonance is Eating Me Alive (Intro Post)

  by pometerre21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking here for a couple of weeks now.

  i'm starting to "awaken" and it is all that has been occupying my mind.

  i've always, always had doubts, some of which i expressed to family members who always had the same replies:.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Welcome. There's nothing wrong with questioning.
  
  I did not leave concerning child abuse and I assumed it was overblown when I first heard it. Looking further into it helped me see what a real issue that was.
  
  Do your research and much of that cognitive dissonance will clear up.
  An organization that tells you not to read outside information should be questioned with outside information.
  You will get plenty of good advice. I will just say, "Start at jwfacts . com and see where that takes you.

  Edited to add: I hung on for years from within the congregation when I had doubts. So when I finally cleared them up, I did leave quickly. The point- it is a way of life, it is embedded in your head, so it is tough to let go.
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  78

  Work Christmas functions: Being a Bible Student (unbaptized)

  by rulehayl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all,i have been studying with the witnesses for more than 6 months and regularly attend both midweek & weekend meetings, and i am nearly at the end of the "bible teach" book.

  my boss is adamant i attend team christmas functions.

  she knows about my studying and potential baptism next year, and has suggested that i attend and just not participate in activities like kris kringle.

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  OnTheWayOut

  We can talk about learning much more before you get baptized later.
  Right now, you need to think about a few things.
  
  1. You are not a baptized JW, you are not subject to some heavy rules. You are slowly being manipulated with subtle mind control.

  2. It is not interfaith to attend team functions, despite the fact that people at work use a religious holiday as their reason to gather. Ask yourself if they are actually involved in worship and some kind of inaccurate dispensing of false religious beliefs, or if they are blowing off steam at a time of year that people have chosen to do so.
  
  "...because I may make excuses for participation in Worldly events."
  Those are buzz words that go back to Number 1 above. Instead of you making decisions for yourself, JW's and the Watchtower will say you should decide, but then give reasons why you should do what they want you to do.
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  6

  good article on how the Bible could have easily proven it's from God

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/02/13/six-and-a-half-reasons-why-the-bible-is-not-divinely-inspired/.

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  OnTheWayOut

  EverApostate

  I know that was sarcastic. Anyway, Let me play the prosecution for OnTheWayOut

  So, the Bible is only for those ancient people. And why couldn't God create a Bible for sinful humans to understand

  I had a nice answer typed out and something with the quotes makes me drop my response outside of them. So here I go again:
  
  To answer from THEIR POINT OF VIEW, The Bible did need to be understood by those ancient people, but God knows that if we ask for help today, we can understand it also.