Posts by OnTheWayOut

130

2017 Annual Meeting

by Jules Saturn in

this just in from the 2017 annual meeting:.

1. watchtowers and awakes won't be released regularly, at least three watchtower and awakes per year.

6 magazines a year.. 2. a new book is being released: remain in god's love, more of an update like how they did for the what does the bible really teach book.

OnTheWayOut

I feel like at this point they can say anything at the moment, they can say that we're living in the Great Tribulation right now and that idea will be sold by everyone.

I am confident now that when they need to stop printing or they need to close down major portions of the cult and become something else, they actually will say that the doors have closed, the time is now, it has begun, whatever terms they want. They will have their trips ready to move to secluded beach homes in countries without extradition to the United States and their money secured, plus they will have given the doctrine that allows for them to be gone and forgotten (and dead) before everyone realizes the end is not upon them.

What they are doing, I just want them to be quicker about it. I will help them pack their bags if it saves more young ones from being shunned.

16

Trivial stuff about the AGM

by sir82 in

jw
friends

lots of good comments already about the content of saturday's agm broadcast.. i just thought i'd add my (trivial!

) comments about the magnificent 7:.

-- loesch - was he intentionally trying to be boring?

OnTheWayOut

I will say that, when I resigned as an elder, I used some scripture about how I was supposed to "know" the anointed in order to preach and teach their doctrine. I said that the only anointed I know anything about is the Governing Body and I barely know their names. Well, that certainly has changed for any elders and anyone else who cares to know these guys. They have managed to be in front of the flock like the other cult leaders of the world. But it hasn't made them look wise and caring, it has really made them look clownish.

But the flock was conditioned so much to appreciate the great and powerful GB so much before they saw the men behind the curtain. So it probably makes little difference to them.

I love the term "Magnificent 7."

20

In memory of a lost doctrine - the vindication of Jehovah's name

by slimboyfat in

i start this thread in response to a comment by a jw apologist called simonsays on another thread.

he claimed to have read all three volumes of vindication by rutherford (my sympathy if true).

he further implied that it didn't matter that old jw literature said wrong and stupid things, saying:.

OnTheWayOut

"Spirit-directed" or "inspired." Such nonsense. Do you know what "inspired" generally means to a layman? It means "guided by holy spirit" or "spirit-directed." Word games, indeed.

"Vindication of Jehovah's name" generally means to the members, "justification of His will to cause things to become, proving He has the right and the proper motives for doing what He does."
"Vindication of Jehovah's Sovereignty" would essentially mean the same thing, but maybe easier to understand- "Justification of His Rulership."

"Sanctification of His Name" would mean to a member, "the cleaning up of that name" or removal of stains upon it. So it would be the "proving He has the right and the proper motives for doing what He does" or the "justification of His will." Basically the SAME SAME SAME to everyone except an English Language Expert.

But leaning toward the specific difference from the standpoint of exact English language (and forgetting that Hebrew and Greek were the languages of the Bible, not English), I liked the more specific refinement when I was a blind follower.. It gave something to try to understand, it gave something to bother reading in-depth into the article that covered it, it made the Governing Body look like they were actually progressing our understanding.

The other issue Barbara Anderson talked of- "The New Order" vs. "The New World." I have to say I agree with Barb that they just should have said the "men" at Bethel don't like the negative attachment to Nazis that one term gives even though there's nothing wrong with the term.

72

What was the biggest thing that convinced you that

by Ponyo in

.....the truth was not the truth... ?

.

OnTheWayOut

....and "blood fractions" and Bethel layoffs (getting rid of your "family" to save money) were huge factors too.

74

The Watchtower's Real Crisis

by JeffT in

jw
friends

when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

OnTheWayOut

While I am confident it is more about money, there sure is a huge consideration that they don't know what to say anymore. As crazy as some of the Fred Franz stuff was, it certainly was baffling enough to dazzle everyone.

But they have no talent for contradicting their old doctrine with something that seems like a "brlghter light" understanding.

I think they have some ideas on the shelf about tying Armageddon to the 120 years thing like the days of Noah and shooting for 2034 as a highly speculative date. I think they have considered how to drop 1914, maybe even going with the 20 years error that so many have tried to teach them about that. But they loaded the Governing Body with a bunch of "Yes" men for Ted Jaracz and his crew that aren't really clever enough to make the changes.

I think that over the last 20 years or so, they have occasionally hinted at such things in meetings and gauged the reactions of members and members didn't like it. They then waited too long, got too much locked into their old beliefs.

They probably thought they should just keep "tweaking" the doctrines and selling literature and didn't have the sense to see the slow death of printing. Really, there may not be much of any way to dig out of their hole. Members have been so hitched to the printing corporation that they won't really contribute more money to a streamlined organization.

72

What was the biggest thing that convinced you that

by Ponyo in

.....the truth was not the truth... ?

.

OnTheWayOut

SO many things!

So true.

I have a few but will mention the top 2.

1. When "this generation" was changed in 1995, I had a hard time accepting that "we" were taught for so long that this was pretty much settled sometime shortly after 1914 and was a rock-solid teaching. When I tried to talk to a fellow elder about it, he was older and saw so many things change so he casually said "Things change."
It didn't sit well with me, it didn't fit to just accept that the light gets brighter because the light would have been off with the change of understanding. It was studied at the meeting and someone read the answer to the question about it and then, BAM! All was changed like it was no big deal.

2. I saw so much nepotism, protecting of JW families of elders to the degree that it was a double standard. And then I was taught via elders school and letters that elders could be forgiven for things like viewing pornography without even a judicial hearing or loss of privileges. I started noticing more and more double standards and extra privileges among higher ups.

27

At the annual meeting right now . . .

by neat blue dog in

i'm at the recorded meeting right now.

trying to hide my disgust sitting up front listening to geoffrey jackson quibble about the pharisaical minutai of sanctification vs. vindication.

the audience is thrilled that they now have 'permission' to say god's name can be vindicated.

OnTheWayOut

neat blue dog:

Gerrit Loesch just said that when gog and Magog attack, the new headquarters will be protected 🙄

So then he DOES think he is "inspired" and not just "spirit-directed." Why is it they can have it both ways when it is convenient?

30

Do not think the end will come?

by Akid48 in

thats somthing i see thats asked in my kingdom hall if you want to go get more than 2 years in collage.thing in some one asking that to me or etc i cant say any thing or that would show that i dont believe.. i hate when some one askes me that when i try to plan ahead when it comes to what job i want.what job would help me hold my own but no god will give if you put him first.i dont believe in god even when i did i never buyed into that.. it seems you cant get away from the question im only 13 and i get that question theres no getting away from it..

OnTheWayOut

The organization has said all things on all sides of this issue. Throw the pro-college stuff in people's faces.

From https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/higher-education-university.php
During this period, advice was still given about the dangers of university, such as that if “a Christian is considering pursuing additional schooling, he would do well to examine his own motives to make sure that selfish, materialistic interests are not the driving force.” (Awake! 1998 Mar 8 p.21) However, the articles were more balanced, concluding, “such decisions are of a personal nature. Christians ought not to criticize or judge one another on this matter.” (Awake!1998 Mar 8 p.21)

86

JW Rumor: End of the Traveling Overseer

by Edison Trent in

a friend of mine has contacts to a family with several circuit overseers and special pioneers.

they have good connections to bethel.. he told me that the latest rumor from bethel states that the cos should be abolished in their present form.

they have also recently begun to take cos back to bethel.. over the same channel i have already heard of the car fleet program and that the dos should be abolished.. has anyone else already heard of it?

OnTheWayOut

careful, I get what you are saying. It doesn't seem likely they would issue new instructions in Sept. to eliminate part of that instructions in Oct. But "Circuit Overseer" could still exist in another form or the term can easily be replaced on paper by "Regional Overseer."

23

Crisis of conscience

by Ponyo in

does anyone know where i can buy coc for under $50?

.

OnTheWayOut

This whole thing is ridiculous. The author of material has a right to profit and to pass on those profits after s/he dies. But we should recognize a few things. This is a life-changing book that we know good and well, Ray Franz would rather have widely distributed as much as possible than for people to stall it's continued availability over any issues, financial or otherwise.

IF THEY WOULD JUST PUBLISH THE BOOK, then I would not say any of this. I would say, "Pay them $30 and be done with it." But having said that, they are not coming out with more needed books when a free download is available. People need to read this book. Do what you have to do.