Posts by dozy

20

QUALITY OF NEW CONVERTS MAY BE GOING DOWN

by badboy in

jw
friends

what with a recent post about jws picking up people from care homes etc and homeless people etc, i think quality of new converts is going down..

dozy

The pioneers conducted a big bible study in a nursing home and without exception all of them were drooling or sleeping.

And the nursing home residents were even worse! (Boom boom!)

I recently saw a video of people getting baptized at one of the big assemblies at NY in the mid 50’s – virtually all young adults in their 20s or 30s , mostly married couples.

I honestly can’t remember the last time a reasonably competent adult who hadn’t had some previous family connection with “the truth” was baptized. We had a Q&A on the monthly bible study offer – not one study had been started , so the brother had to read a few experiences out of the Yearbook.

The few who do occasionally come along are the rejects of society who are grateful that someone shows an interest in them. Even so , because their domestic lives are so chaotic , it can be very difficult for them to get into the routine of meetings & ministry necessary for them to reach baptism.

21

What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy in

i know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.

pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.

how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.

dozy

IBSA accounts (holding company for the UK Bethel buildings)

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=216647&SubsidiaryNumber=0

21

What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy in

i know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.

pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.

how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.

dozy

The UK position is very strong - they are used as somewhat as a "Cash Cow" by the US HQ & remit millions back "home" , as well as supporting countries in Africa & many 3rd world Commenwealth countries.

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1077961&SubsidiaryNumber=0

As stated , they don't publish accounts in the USA. Undoubtedly the collapse of the sale of the Bossert Hotel http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/10/levine_walks_fr.php will have hurt the WTS and notably they have eased up on the building program in NYC , though they are still building up-state. I would guess they are a bit strapped for cash.

They have made a number of cost cutting measures recently which would help - paying off Bethelites , cutting the frequency of WT & Awakes , reducing the quality of the literature etc. They are also much more strident in raiding congregation funds , obtaining conditional donations (which the WTS says only 13% is ever paid back).

Notably in the magazines , they much more frequently refer to "serving Jah with your valuable things" (ie donate more) and have made several references to tithing. I suspect that if the WTS really got into financial trouble that a WT study article stressing the biblical basis of tithing "as a guide" would be published.

84

In Germany, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls

by processor in

according to german april issue of our kingdom ministry, the watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls:.

it sais that the watchtower logo - a stylised watchtower or a watchtower with a bible - is used by the watchtower society.

thus, it should not be used by congregations or private persons, neither on kingdom halls, stationary or anything else.

dozy

I know a few creative brickies who put a Watchtower logo on quickbuild halls. Not RBC approved.

The emphasis on "Watchtower" and liberal use of the symbol has always struck me as being somewhat idolotrous and I know causes disquiet to some sincere high-up JWs. Increasingly the WTS seems to be trying to distance the "corporate" arm from JWs in general and using the expression "the Society" is frowned upon. The legal documents in the California paedophile case describe the WTS lawyers efforts in trying to claim that the WTS had nothing to do the congregations concerned , other than as a supplier of literature and occasional pastoral advice - an argument somewhat difficult to sustain if Watchtower logos are plastered all over the Kingdom Halls!

An obvious change would be to reincorporate the bulk of the WTS , perhaps under the title "Christian cong of Jehovah's Witnesses" or similar. The WTS could act as the holding arm for the assets , cash , investments and (primarily) property. A similar system operates in the UK , with IBSA as the asset holding entity , with the WTS of Britain as a "trading" organisation. This ringfences the bulk of the WTS assets from any legal claims.

Such a change would serve 2 purposes - legal protection and a perception of removing any suggestion of idolotry. If the WTS can tie it in with any Daniel prophecy (eg 2300 days etc - as it has done in the past) , then so much the better.

18

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-01-09 WT Study (OPPOSE DEVIL)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 02-01-09 wt study (november 15, 2008, pages 27-31 )(oppose devil).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

dozy

The picture raised a few comments - a couple of young JW sisters being seduced in a cocktail bar by two sleazy predator males. The consensus seemed to be that the men would be slipping something into the drinks.

52

Snapped. It just occurred to me that I REALLY hate my life. Mostly all of it.

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

here lately, i have just been wishing that i could just fast-forward through my remaining years on earth and just die to get this nonsense all over with.. i have only myself to blame.

if i had gone through with my attempt to leave this hokey religion about sixteen years ago when i attempted to--before i got married and had kids--then maybe i wouldn't be teetering on the very slippery edge of sanity.

instead i punked out, buckled under the threats of shunning and guilt of abandoning family members, and so here i am--looking into the mirror every morning wondering when the nightmare is going to end.

dozy

Really , really sorry for you.

I suppose the only hope if you want to keep your marriage together is to draw some comfort from what some of the other posters have said. It is true that some of the most gung-ho Jws can suddenly evaporate when confronted with cast iron evidence.

The turn around can be incredibly rapid , maybe because some of the qualities which makes an individual very enthusiastic about “the truth” can also make them very bitter and anti-JW.

Best wishes…

20

Cracks in the Veneer

by mrsjones5 in

jw
friends

last night i was talking to a dear cousin of mine (if i had to classify her i would say she a liberal jw who firmly believes) and she said "they told me that i wouldn't graduate high school and now i'm almost 50".

after she said that i waited for her to follow that line of thought to some conclusion of perhaps "maybe they're wrong" but it didn't happen.

i don't have any desire to start working on her to leave the borg (though i would love it if she and other members of the family would wake up) but i do find it interresting to listen to and watch the cracks in the veneer.. josie.

dozy

I think that there has always been element of JW “moaning” about the length of time the system has gone on or problems in the cong but as some posters have pointed out , they don’t go beyond that. The hurdle involved in leaving is too high - it isn’t even a consideration.

Where I am , Jws are increasingly polarised - a “hard core” element are pioneering and more gung-ho than ever before.

The vast majority are just going through the motions without any depth & it is really just an extension of their social life. The average JW has a rather menial , purposeless job that doesn‘t encourage him to have any aspirations or think about much , all his friends and most of his family are Jws and the “world” is a frightening place.

JW activity involves limited sacrifice - a couple of meetings a week (which can be missed without comment due to “illness“ , work or weekends away ) and an hour of ministry at the weekend or during the week followed by coffee and cakes at the local cafe. Study is very limited - in my cong , I would guess about 70% of the Watchtowers are not underlined. It is a comfortable enough lifestyle without any need to unravel it or “rock the boat”.

63

WT 15th April apostates / new light on miscarriages

by dozy in

study articles have strong counsel against apostates - modern day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the devil.

their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude towards individuals in the congregations , christian elders or the governing body.

some apostates oppose the use of the divine name , jehovah.

dozy

Study articles have strong counsel against apostates - “modern day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the Devil. Their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude towards individuals in the congregations , Christian elders or the Governing Body. Some apostates oppose the use of the divine name , Jehovah. They are not interested in learning about Jehovah , or in serving him. Like their father , Satan , apostates target people of integrity“.

Questions from readers (QFR) deals with the “new thought” on the resurrection prospects of miscarriages. Some did wonder when the WTS recently and unusually pictured a sister commiserating with a mother standing over an empty cot whether this view would continue to evolve. In an incredibly woolly and vague article (if these men have a direct line of communication to God , there must be a tremendous amount of static) , the WTS have continued their gradual changing of this belief as summarised below:

Will miscarried babies or stillborn get a resurrection?

1969 QFR 1 st Apr Stillborn = no Embryos = no Foetuses = no

1984 QFR 15 th Mar Stillborn = maybe Embryos = maybe Foetuses = no

2009 QFR 15 th Apr Stillborn = probably Embryos = probably Foetuses = probably

16

UK Kingdom halls situated in terrible areas

by excito-are in

as some one who who has travelled britian well, i must make known an observation.

almost all kingdom halls are in really bad areas.

fron travelling around scotland i see in edinburgh, glasgow, kilbrinie, bellshill , hamilton, kirkcaldy, glenrothes, methil, dundee, aberdeen, inverness, the halls are in a terrible place where unemployment is rife, drug taking common place and just downright poverty and crime is seen.

dozy

It certainly isn’t a deliberate WTS policy and there are some Kingdom Halls in very nice areas. The cost of land is obviously a lot higher in better areas & it is often very difficult to get planning permission in a primarily middle class residential neighbourhood. Some of the areas you mention are particularly “deprived” and it would be difficult to locate any desirable site.

108

BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!

by GermanXJW in

johannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.

he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.

there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.

dozy

Hmmm - interesting but a bit vague. It would be helpful to learn his current status.

Ex-Jws tend to make the assumption that any JW who reads “apostate material” would eventually leave - the sheer weight of argumentation and evidence would lead naturally to this conclusion. It does seem that some are very resilient to criticism & very committed - there are certainly some in the UK Bethel who are very familiar with apostate arguments but have personally overcome them.

I have often wondered whether the WTS greatest concern is that a major non-English branch would “apostatise” and form a major split. Many Branch officials must resent the control from the USA and petty dictation in many matters.