What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy 21 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Roddy
    Roddy

    I know this may seen an obvious question but I'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.

    We know of the large real estate sell-offs in Brooklyn and their large Bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications. Pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations. How they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations. And of their summer conventions - hosting more of them in their assembly halls by dividing their districts instead of renting stadiums and large public facilites as they done in the past. But are they getting more desperate in the last five years or so?

    Moving the "congregation" book study from individual homes to the congregation was a necessary consession. Because the rank and file had to put more and more of their "donations" money into traveling expenses instead of in the congregation's donation boxes. (No, I'm cynical of the WTS published reasons for this adjustment - it wasn't to ease the burden on the brothers but to hope they get more money dropped into the congregation's donation boxes.)

    I think the next moves we'll see from the WTS really translates to evidence of their declining financial health.

    I'm also sure they are thinking of a new plan to extract new money from the rank and file somehow. I'll bet I know what it is -- secret "donations" of the congregation funds to the WTS by the congregation's elder body. Much of what they do when they have the Circuit Assembly elder's meeting -- the rubberstamp approval of the circuit "donating" circuit money to the WTS - which the circuit never knows about publically.

    This will be interesting.

  • Scarred for life
    Scarred for life

    It sounds to me like all evidence points to a downwardly spiraling financial situation. I am not surprised at all. With the overall economy declining so rapidly there is no way the WBTS would not be affected.

    Some people on this board seems to think that the WBTS is loaded with money. I don't think so. I don't think they ever really have been. And especially not now.

  • DT
    DT

    Unfortunately, we don't have any way of knowing what their true financial position is. I doubt that even the governing body has a good idea of how they are doing financially. I think it is plausible that they might have much more money than they indicate. Their cost cutting could be just a ploy to encourage donations while keeping expenses low. It might depend on whether the people who handle the money actually believe in the religion. If not, they might be diverting funds elsewhere or hiding money in case the organisation collapses.

    On the other hand, their financial position could be much worse than we are led to believe. I could see this being the case if they made bad investments or are making secret settlements to avoid highly publicised lawsuits.

    As long as they handle their money wisely, they should be able to meet their modest expenses (considering all the free labor they use) while squeezing the poor publishers for money and enjoying occasional windfalls when they die and name the Watchtower society in their wills. I think they are probably more concerned that the legal climate could change and they will have to face an avalanche of lawsuits. That could bankrupt them.

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    I'm helping by going to kh, donating $0.00 and also throwing away more than 20 mags a month

  • oompa
    oompa

    I have heard from a well placed insider that is incredibly strong....old money invested wisely................oompa

  • Roddy
    Roddy

    Unfortunately, we don't have any way of knowing what their true financial position is. I doubt that even the governing body has a good idea of how they are doing financially. I think it is plausible that they might have much more money than they indicate. Their cost cutting could be just a ploy to encourage donations while keeping expenses low. It might depend on whether the people who handle the money actually believe in the religion. If not, they might be diverting funds elsewhere or hiding money in case the organisation collapses.

    On the other hand, their financial position could be much worse than we are led to believe. I could see this being the case if they made bad investments or are making secret settlements to avoid highly publicised lawsuits.

    As long as they handle their money wisely, they should be able to meet their modest expenses (considering all the free labor they use) while squeezing the poor publishers for money and enjoying occasional windfalls when they die and name the Watchtower society in their wills. I think they are probably more concerned that the legal climate could change and they will have to face an avalanche of lawsuits. That could bankrupt them.

    Those are good points, DT. Thanks.

    I forgot about the varioius kinds of lawsuits they contend with constantly. Let's never forget that they obviously have good legal talent whether somehow acquired, maintain at not small expense, or a mix of both.

    The governing body is probably too old to care or comprehend what's going on. I think they and a bunch of other older career Bethelites are just hoping for all-expenses-paid retirement whether they are devoted to the religion or not. They really have no place to go so that is motivation enough.

    I heard that they do have secret (or perhaps not so secret) stocks and investments. I don't know how those are performing during the economic depression we're in. And if they have more plans for layoffs and real estate sell-offs of other Brooklyn facilities, what they could get for them now is much less than if they sold them off two years ago. But much of it still is prime waterfront and near waterfront property.

    And the irony is the WTS should be glad at being victims of their own success. What I mean is that by encouraging the rank and file to give up good paying jobs, higher education to get well paying jobs, and job promotions for better pay in order to be Pioneer part-timers at menial jobs, they have this vast devoted free labor force that can only afford to give WTS menial donations.

    But no one really explains that being a Pioneer is an expensive "occupation" that is encouraged by the WTS but not supported by the WTS.

    Of course, I feel for those that come up to their retirement years and have nothing to show for it. Or those that need medical or dental attention but have no medical or dental insurance to help them. And other similarly sad situations.

    Seems that the only thing that the WTS will give for free is no-blood support. But they will also give you free total cut-off with disfellowshipment if you decide to not follow their "free" no-blood advice. So much reward for so many years of free devoted service!

    It's human robbery. So much human robbery at every level it just blows my mind!

    I know that what took it over the top for me is when the elders secretly gave the deed of the Kingdom Hall to the WTS. I learned that this is common practice and the congregation is never informed of this. So the congregation brings upon it the mortgage of the property but it is turned-over to the WTS in a secret meeting? That means that in the United States alone the WTS holds the deed to every kingdom hall property. I guess that's a vast real estate block they can loan against when their finances gets critical. What will be interesting is when the WTS can't pay the loan. Does that mean kingdom halls will be liquidated or the rank-and-file is obligated to give the WTS a "bailout"?

    As you can see I'm letting my imagination run wild. LOL! But it will be interesting how they play their financial cards and how the rank-and-file will react.

  • Roddy
    Roddy

    I'm helping by going to kh, donating $0.00 and also throwing away more than 20 mags a month

    LOL

    No, think of it that you are donating 20 mags a month for recycling efforts.

  • Roddy
    Roddy

    I have heard from a well placed insider that is incredibly strong....old money invested wisely................oompa

    If so, we should find out what is in their investment portfolio and play along for the ride.

    I heard that their investment is in a company that's attached or involved in the military? All we need now is a good war! LOL

  • dozy
    dozy

    The UK position is very strong - they are used as somewhat as a "Cash Cow" by the US HQ & remit millions back "home" , as well as supporting countries in Africa & many 3rd world Commenwealth countries.

    http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1077961&SubsidiaryNumber=0

    As stated , they don't publish accounts in the USA. Undoubtedly the collapse of the sale of the Bossert Hotel http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/10/levine_walks_fr.php will have hurt the WTS and notably they have eased up on the building program in NYC , though they are still building up-state. I would guess they are a bit strapped for cash.

    They have made a number of cost cutting measures recently which would help - paying off Bethelites , cutting the frequency of WT & Awakes , reducing the quality of the literature etc. They are also much more strident in raiding congregation funds , obtaining conditional donations (which the WTS says only 13% is ever paid back).

    Notably in the magazines , they much more frequently refer to "serving Jah with your valuable things" (ie donate more) and have made several references to tithing. I suspect that if the WTS really got into financial trouble that a WT study article stressing the biblical basis of tithing "as a guide" would be published.

  • wobble
    wobble

    I wonder if the present management have the same faith they are supposed to have had in 1919?

    Though I think this story is apocryphal,or at least very witness-doctored,the attitude is interesting:

    "First of all, where should they locate the Society’s offices? Should they move the headquarters back to Brooklyn? The Society’s board of directors considered the matter, and a committee was appointed to check into the situation.

    Brother Rutherford instructed C. A. Wise, the Society’s vice president, to go to Brooklyn to see about reopening Bethel and renting premises where the Society could begin printing operations. Desirous of knowing what course God would bless, Brother Rutherford said: “Go and see whether it is the Lord’s will for us to return back to Brooklyn.”

    “How will I determine as to whether it is the Lord’s will for us to go back or not?” asked Brother Wise.

    “It was a failure to get coal supplies in 1918 that drove us from Brooklyn back to Pittsburgh,” Brother Rutherford replied. “Let’s make coal the test. You go and order some coal.”

    “How many tons do you think I should order to make the test?”

    “Well, make it a good test,” Brother Rutherford recommended. “Order 500 tons.”

    That is exactly what Brother Wise did. And what was the outcome? When he applied to the authorities, he was granted a certificate to get 500 tons of coal—enough to care for their needs for a number of years! But where were they going to put it? Large sections of the basement of the Bethel Home were converted into coal storage.

    The result of this test was taken as an unmistakable indication of God’s will. By the first of October 1919, they were once again beginning to carry on their activity from Brooklyn."

    I think if they were spirit directed today that they would have been guided to sell up,lock stock and barrel,years ago in Brooklyn,when proprty was at its highest value.

    Perhaps the spirits that guide them today are not investment experts!

    Love

    Wobble

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