slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  56

  Old Greek Daniel's Son of Man

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  again this is large topic, some of which has been discussed elsewhere on this site.

  the basic question i want to discuss is the identification of the 'someone like a son of man" in daniel 7. as we all know christians understood the figure to be the messiah (christ), so the question posed is did the author intend it to be a singular personage or a collective symbol of the holy of israel as jews typically read it?

  or how about the unexpected idea that the "someone like a son of man" was the very same character as the "ancient of days" in another role?.

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  slimboyfat

  What do you mean by the “identification” of the Son of Man? Do you mean who the original author thought he was? Or the Greek translator(s)? Or the early Christians? Or who we should identify as the Son of Man?
  
  For me the interesting thing is what the early Christians thought about the Son of Man. From what I can tell they identified Jesus as the Son of Man of Daniel 7 and they perceived him to be a supreme angelic being distinct from and subordinate to God. This might be different (probably is) from what the original author had in mind, and what later Jews thought, as well as later Christians.
  
  To me the distinction between Jesus and God is maintained in Rev 1 and throughout Revelation. It may be that Jews came to identify the Son of Man and the Ancient of Days as one and the same person in response to the so-called two powers heresy, just as later trinitarians in their own way conflated the two to suit their own dogma.
  
  But as far as the original author was concerned, they seem to be separate beings, and the Son of Man is naturally subordinate to the Ancient of Days, and the same probably goes for how the early Christians identified the Son of Man.
  
  
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  slimboyfat

  I didn’t find any reference to the “hailstone message” in the recent Watchtower, but I think I’ve found it in the June 2023 Watchtower:

  During the great tribulation, elders will need courage to obey instructions they will receive​—regardless of the dangers involved. The instructions may relate to delivering a symbolic hailstone message and to surviving the attack of Gog of Magog.​

  Does that mean the message is now about telling JWs how to survive rather than telling non-JWs they are going to die? If so, this change seems to predate the annual meeting. Did people pick upon it at the time. They don’t seem to signpost it “this is a change” as they sometimes do. Did people realise it was a change from the old “hailstone message”?
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  slimboyfat

  Does it mention the hailstone message specifically? Did they call it a revision, or “new light” on the meaning of that term in particular?
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  slimboyfat

  I’ve not been paying close attention to Watchtower developments, but talking to a JW yesterday it occurred to me the Society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  From what I gather, a few years ago the GB announced that during the Great Tribulation JWs would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed. There were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing. Have I got that right? If so, that seemed like a hardening in their position from the traditional ambiguity about exactly who would be saved, or could repent and get saved at what time.

  But now, at the latest annual meeting, and in the recent WT, the Society have announced a complete reversal. Instead of people being condemned during the Great Tribulation they can repent and be saved right up to the last minute, regardless of their earlier actions.

  Have I got the original position right, and now the revision?

  If so, I’ve got questions. What have they done with the idea of the “hailstone message”? Have they given it a new interpretation, abandoned the idea, or just ignored what they said previously?

  If this description of the change in position is accurate, does anyone have any ideas what prompted it? It is part of a larger programme of liberalisation, including beards, and what else? Do you think the removal of Morris from the GB is related to these changes in any way?
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  3144

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  Wow. Horrible. That’s pretty desperate. Don’t know what more to say.
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  71

  Lloyd Evans Patreoff Pool March 2024

  by DerekMoors in

  1. social
  2. humour

  for those still interested in lloyd's fall from grace, i made up a chart of my own.

  april 2023 is when he put out his "things are bad" tin cup begging video, and he got a small surge to 592 on the 13th of that month.

  i'm also using his all-time peak of 897 from november 2022.. for march, we're gonna say a modest -15, putting him at 352. i'm also curious as to when he might hit 300 and then 200. if he keeps up with an average of -20 every month, he'll be at less than 190 before the end of this year.. happy guessing everyone..

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  slimboyfat

  Let it not be said LE has never given anything to the community. He’s provided a mild reason to look forward to the end of the month to see how far he drops, plus it renews in perpetuity, or until he gives up.
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  11

  "Mark" Sanderson one-ups Jackson's goatee

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  not sure if this was posted yet but the second gb member has been spotted with more than a mustache, and the first one going for a full beard (at about 3 minutes into the video):.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcgwkgrkh0k&pp=ygujancgymvhcmrz.

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  slimboyfat

  Oh for crying out loud this is getting ridiculous.

  And where did the freckles on his forehead come from all of a sudden? Maybe he wants to get them looked at.
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  3144

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  He’s gay AND he told Kim about prostitutes because he wanted to hit on her? (What a weird way to hit on someone, but he is weird) Can’t have it both ways, can we? Unless he’s bisexual, I suppose. But I’m skeptical that bisexual really exists. Maybe for women it does, but for men? I don’t know if it’s really a thing. But just because I don’t know, doesn’t make it so. Anything’s possible, I suppose.

  All this is beside the point though, and a bit of a diversion. Whether he’s 50% this or that, he’s definitely 100% a liar and hypocrite and abusive to those around him.
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  13

  Progress on the NWT Study Bible

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the society has been working on the nwt study bible since the revised nwt was released in 2013. so far they done the nt up to philemon.

  that makes about 17% of the entire bible including the hebrew/aramaic scriptures.

  at that rate the study edition of the whole nwt will be completed sometime around the year 2077. .

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  slimboyfat

  I don’t understand how the meaning of Leviticus 5.1 has been changed. I have a possible idea but I’m not sure I understand the point being made here. Can you explain the meaning of the new rendering compared with the old one and what phrase changes it?
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  47

  The First Holocaust

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

  the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

  as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

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  slimboyfat

  This thread has inspired me to buy this book. It looks epic! I’ll let you know how I get on.

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1032020121/