Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  slimboyfat

  I’ve not been paying close attention to Watchtower developments, but talking to a JW yesterday it occurred to me the Society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  From what I gather, a few years ago the GB announced that during the Great Tribulation JWs would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed. There were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing. Have I got that right? If so, that seemed like a hardening in their position from the traditional ambiguity about exactly who would be saved, or could repent and get saved at what time.

  But now, at the latest annual meeting, and in the recent WT, the Society have announced a complete reversal. Instead of people being condemned during the Great Tribulation they can repent and be saved right up to the last minute, regardless of their earlier actions.

  Have I got the original position right, and now the revision?

  If so, I’ve got questions. What have they done with the idea of the “hailstone message”? Have they given it a new interpretation, abandoned the idea, or just ignored what they said previously?

  If this description of the change in position is accurate, does anyone have any ideas what prompted it? It is part of a larger programme of liberalisation, including beards, and what else? Do you think the removal of Morris from the GB is related to these changes in any way?
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  Mikejw

  Yes you are right AGM and Recent watchtower changed it that maybe we will have a hailstorm message or maybe not.

  Its a contradiction if we still believe in the hailstorm message where we go around saying there is no hope for you but this is just to tell you that you are going to die.

  now they are saying that even unrighteous ones will survive Armageddon
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  slimboyfat

  Does it mention the hailstone message specifically? Did they call it a revision, or “new light” on the meaning of that term in particular?
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  slimboyfat

  I didn’t find any reference to the “hailstone message” in the recent Watchtower, but I think I’ve found it in the June 2023 Watchtower:

  During the great tribulation, elders will need courage to obey instructions they will receive​—regardless of the dangers involved. The instructions may relate to delivering a symbolic hailstone message and to surviving the attack of Gog of Magog.​

  Does that mean the message is now about telling JWs how to survive rather than telling non-JWs they are going to die? If so, this change seems to predate the annual meeting. Did people pick upon it at the time. They don’t seem to signpost it “this is a change” as they sometimes do. Did people realise it was a change from the old “hailstone message”?
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  Mikejw

  It’s all so convoluted and confusing

  they don’t even know what the official doctrine is anymore

  they will hide behind we can’t be dogmatic and we don’t know

  there was a recent video showing an old brother and a young brother getting ready to go on cart witnessing. Two cops walk past and the young brother covers up the JW logo, and the old brother gives him a prep talk about trusting Jehovah and not showing fear

  its a bit ambiguous but I think it meant something about the judgment message
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  Mikejw

  Until we get an official new light making it clear this is an updated understanding then the official doctrine is still what was previously said. Even if it was a long time ago
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  Vidiot

  slimboyfat - “…Have they given it a new interpretation, abandoned the idea, or just ignored what they said previously?”

  Well, considering how often the third option’s been exercised in the past…

  😏
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  Magnum

  It is confusing and unclear now. I used to call myself an expert on JWism, but no more. I wouldn't even try to keep up with it and waste brain space anymore. I would no longer know which types and antitypes they still consider to be valid, what the locusts represent, the meaning of Eze 9:4, what parts of the Revelation Climax book they still consider to be valid, etc.

  I, too, am curious about what they now say about the hailstone message, though.
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  Beth Sarim

  Its all so convoluted and confusing because it is just,,,that. Confusing and convuluted.

  The Borg doesnt even know what they are talking about.

  Another 180 degree turn on what they taught for years.

  The blood policy, superior authorities,, organ transplants....

  And you're expected to die for the Borg?

  Im just happy an ""awakening" is taking place amongst the $heeples.
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  Anony Mous

  @slimboyfat: your original stance is correct that is what I always was learned.

  However in the past 1-2 decades they had changed that to say that people that know about JWs but did not convert or knowingly rejected them (aka bible studies that did not end in baptism, spouses, children and apostates) would not be saved either after death or the great tribulation.

  If what you say is true, and I have no doubt it could be interpreted that way, that is a complete reversal on doctrinal things from complete batshit crazy end of day cults that resulted in numerous kidnappings and apparently even a few murders in the past to “mainstream Christian church”, “everyone is loved” hippy dippy bullshit.

  I don’t know the exact timelines on every doctrinal change in the directions but it seems to me the eviction of Anthony Morris and retirement of a few other old timers has its effects.

  However do be careful, if the source of the material is well published “official stance” kinds of stuff then it is not unusual to have duplicitous messages. I wouldn’t be surprised that they present these public annual addresses that no real JW watches as a “this is what we officially believe, we don’t control what our followers believe” kind of excuse for the courts, investors etc. Once they publish it in the non-public Watchtower and provide this new guidance to CO and elder schools about the changes, then it’s official.