The First Holocaust

by nicolaou 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  nicolaou

  Please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.

  Let's make the assumption as many Christians do that the Bible is historically accurate. The Noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.

  That means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation. As if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children God killed.

  He drowned all of them, every single one.

  I know I keep banging on about the atrocities of god but I make no apologies for it. There is a sickness at the heart of all three Abrahamic religions that the faithful need to face up to.

  I haven't actually asked any questions, I don't think I need to. If you are believer who supports this first holocaust and mass infanticide you already know the questions you should be asking yourself.
• 

  stan livedeath

  i was only thinking today--why did the pair of kangaroos head of round the world to Australia ?
• 

  peacefulpete

  The ethical ideals of many who wrote the Bible scream out as primitive and barbaric. For many of the scribes responsible for the works of the Pentateuch, life was as uncomplicated as giving God exactly what he wants or starve and die of disease. Even promising that God would send wild animals to kill your children.

  14If, however, you fail to obey Me and to carry out all these commandments, ...16then this is what I will do to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting disease, and fever that will destroy your sight and drain your life. You will sow your seed in vain,... I will proceed to punish you sevenfold for your sins. ... I will multiply your plagues seven times... 22I will send wild animals against you to rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and reduce your numbers, until your roads lie desolate.

  For later Christians like Marcion of Sinope, this was just unconscionable. Their solution might seem radical today. They insisted the God of the OT was not the true God but a demiurge pretender who had misled the Jews. It was impossible to harmonize the ideals of the Jesus they thought they knew with the God of the OT.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Where do you get the figure of 60 million?

  The situation as described is intolerable. But we are humans, there may be things we don’t know or understand about what happened or why.

  Plus what about the killing that is going on right now and that us humans could stop if we wanted to. That’s not God’s fault, that’s our fault. Is it easier to speculate on what might have happened thousands of years ago and plug it into a philosophical debate about God rather than face the real life situation that is going on right now and the culpability of humanity.
• 

  joey jojo

  Threats like the one in Leviticus, tap into the fears of members of early civilisations. Famine, attacks by wild animals, natural disasters, disease etc, were real fears, just like they are today, except we understand the cause wasn't angry, displeased spirits.

  A society that believed they lived and died at the whim of god(s) bred radical, superstitious behaviour with barbarous punishments, which we have inherited. Those behaviours are hard to shake off.

  Something like disfellowshipping is directly related to these early beliefs.
• 

  peacefulpete

  Plus what about the killing that is going on right now and that us humans could stop if we wanted to. That’s not God’s fault, that’s our fault. Is it easier to speculate on what might have happened thousands of years ago and plug it into a philosophical debate about God rather than face the real life situation that is going on right now and the culpability of humanity.

  What kind of role model did the Jewish scribes offer? Would being more godlike result in more or less division and suffering?

  I agree, of course we have a culpability, a moral obligation to try to improve the world. Looking to the OT for guidance is not the answer.
• 

  vienne

  too many unfounded presumptions in the OP
• 

  nicolaou

  Where do you get the figure of 60 million?

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_BC

  Seems to be a consensus around this figure for the time period. Would a smaller holocaust be more acceptable Slim'?

  And no, modern atrocities by humans are no less acceptable, they are also irrelevant to the discussion. Focus.
• 

  nicolaou

  too many unfounded presumptions in the OP

  Such as?
• 

  joey jojo

  I agree, of course we have a culpability, a moral obligation to try to improve the world. Looking to the OT for guidance is not the answer.

  Humans have completely destroyed the earth by following this command:

  Gen 1:28- God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

  In 2024, it is estimated that 96% of land mammals consist only of humans, our pets and domesticated animals, like pigs, horses, cattle, sheep. Only 4% of the remaining mammals are 'wild'. Something like 70% of all birds are chickens.

  Of the available land on earth, 40% is under cultivation, meaning, instead of biodiversity, massive land areas contain just a single sterile crop. That crop is produced by ensuring that nothing else can grow where it is growing by using herbicides and pesticides. Land used for farming automatically displaces animals that once lived there. Pollution caused by farming practises is well documented.

  So, the result of following gods command in genesis has been to cause mass extinctions except for the animals that are useful, or tasty.