Posts by fiddler

48

No one who leaves "the truth" is ever happy?

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

for years, i was told this..... " anyone who leaves the org is bitter, sad, and worse off, why do you think they come back???

guess what guys i am the opposite, now i quit cold-turkey (looking back, i should have faded correctly) i am planning on going to the memorial this month just to hear all "the friends" tell me how much they missed me.

since i have left the meetings, (jan. was my last meeting, i think).

fiddler

I found 'peace of mind' finally when I left! The ONLY unhappiness I have experienced is directly related to the JW's.

I have lost my daughter and my only grandbaby because they have convinced my daughter that I am to be viewed as poisen and as mentally diseased. Last year I was denied the right to say goodbye to my dying father and to give him my last hugs because a psychopathic stepmother took full advantage of the Watchtower lies (above) and convinced my father that his eternal life would be at stake if he had anything to do with me. Because of their LIES my life has been affected negatively (as it was when I was in).

As for my life now..............I am doing what I was meant to be doing sharing my gifts and talents with others. Growing up (finally) into a responsible adult in my 40's (now in my 50's) and actually experiencing truly wonderful moments and learning how great it is to NOT be judgemental so that I have met some of the most incredible people I never would have met before. How is being kept perpetually DEPENDANT on an organization a HAPPY thing??? To finally GROW UP in midlife is an 'About Time' moment! Those of you who are getting out in your 20's and 30's have even more to be happy about

What liars they are (even though the R & F don't realize that they are lying to themselves)

43

Yesterday's WT Study par 17

by leaving_quietly in

i marked down "research" next to this paragraph w13 1/15 p.11 par.

17), and have yet to do so fully.. "modern christians held in nazi concentration camps with possible death facing them were given repeated opportunities to gain their freedom by signing a declaration renouncing jehovah.".

was the declaration to renounce jehovah?

fiddler

What I find interesting in this 'declaration' is that it states something that is absolutely TRUE.

That the IBSA is proclaiming erroneous teachings and under the cloak of religion.

DAMN! The third Reich got that right!

The rest of it..............a bit extreme. Kinda an exchange of one lunacy for another.

9

Wondering about Hebrews 8:7

by label licker in

fiddler

Was it Paul who wrote Galations?

What 'Jesus' suposedly wrote and what Paul writes years later..............bleh

Writings of men as I said.

How wordy those old dudes could be! Personally........I believe that there was a big Eastern influence of spiritual thought back then, Jesus words being so close to Buddha like words and all........so here we are! All that 'old covenant' stuff is just that............OLD.

9

Wondering about Hebrews 8:7

by label licker in

fiddler

I at least got the text up there even if the print DID come out so small you can't read it

Scratch that last sentence.......I just figured out how to edit. YEAH!

9

Wondering about Hebrews 8:7

by label licker in

fiddler

H ebrews 8:7
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

At first glance it seems to be saying that the first covenant had some problems and so a new one was sought ~ which just leads to the conclusion IMHO that the new one could be just as flawed as the old one and on and on it goes with covenants made by men (or women if that had been allowed ).

74

Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering

by TMS in

jw
friends

with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.

we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.

some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.

fiddler

This has been such an interesting discussion and kind of helps explain my choice to continue with the religion. I had left the belief system when I was 14/15 but due to getting in with a not so good environment at school got my life in a bit of a mess. The religion was the only 'safe' place I could think to return to.

The meetings and the attitudes WERE a lot more liberal back then. I got married in 1977 and my husband grew a mustache that he kept until chemo got rid of it. I do remember one elder making some snide comment about men with facial hair never getting anywhere in the congregation not even realizing that my husband had one.......what an awkward moment that was. That was in the 80's so the tides were changing. Then through the 90's I grew increasing sad and depressed because as you pointed out, having come in in the 70's we all retained that mindset because it was more NATURAL and loving.

I do remember the James book and in fact, just before I finally called it quits with the JW's in 1999 I re-read that and attempted to read some of the other old study books. I was even rebuked for mentioning the James book by a pioneer sister. I had NO IDEA why or that it was attributed to Ray Franz. After I left I was given the old "you weren't studying enough" lecture by my Aunt on our final conversation before it bacame clear to her that I was an official 'apostate'. I replied back to her that it was exactly because I was studying so much that I left!" I didn't find out until a few years later on one of the ex-JW sites that the rank and file were actually being told not to read old literature. To me, as a born in 3rd generation JW that just seemed so wrong. If the literature was 'directed by holy spirit' back in the 60's and 70's or the Russel to Rutherford years for that matter, it STILL should have had some value to my way of thinking.

During the 80's I was a young mother of 4 little ones and spent a great deal of time in the 'mothers room' and although the talks were piped in you KNOW we all sat back there and talked LOL! I probably missed a few things but all in all, I was quite a 'studier' and I also took notes at all the assemblies in shorthand and could often get quiet a few word for word quotes written down. Those notes I 'noted' seemed to be the basis of the next years Watchtowers and TM meetings so I was also getting a lot.

By the late 90's I started seeing the similarity of the accounts of the Israelites being so much like the modern fundementalist Islamics and Sharia law. So.......that's when the complete mental fog finally started to lift and the scales fell of my eyes. Oh yeah.........the Internet helped immensely as well.

So again.......this topic makes so much sense to me. I think having you former elders and MS insights into things clears up so many of the things we R & F witnesses sensed but didn't know. I have kicked myself so many times for 'falling for it' for so long. This kind of explains what hooked us in the first place. Once hooked it IS very difficult to get unhooked.

6

May 15, 2013 WT up on jw.org now

by Gayle in

has article, page 32 which states about their 'neutrality' policy.

although our position as christian neutrals may not have been fully understood by our brothers nearly a century ago, they sought to please jehovah god.

this is aggravating, as the wts had 'policy' for so many years that jws could not do 'alternative' service.

fiddler

So I guess Judge Rutherford also didn't fully understand the issue of neutrality??

What about the 1933 'Declaration' to Hitler that the was written up in the 1934 YB

http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents/1934_Year_Book.pdf (I think it starts on about pg. 131.)

JW apologists will say that it had no politics nor anti-Semetism suggested in it but I beg to differ. I came to the same conclusions as James Penton. a former elder, who brought this issue up with the governing body in the 1980's and got disfellowshipped. I guess it created quite a stir in Canada! He seemed to have been still a very active Christian and got his own little breakaway group going but regardless........he made some valid points about that declaration. http://ed5015.tripod.com/JwJamesPenton108.htm

and excerpt here:

The Watch Tower Society has long attempted a cover-up of the most dishonest sort. While your organization properly censures other religious communities for their compromise with and support of Nazism, ittries to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses alone were never guilty of such compromise. Yet history tells a different story. The "Erklarung" or "Declaration" published by the Watch Tower Society at the Berlin Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses in June 1933 is, in itself, clear evidence that the Society’s president, Judge J. F. Rutherford, as accompanied by N.H. Knorr, manifested anti-Semitism, hostility to Great Britain and the United States and to the League of Nations. Furthermore, the "Erklarung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.
In addition to the "Erklarung", there is the evidence of the Society's letter to Hitler sent on or immediately following June 25, 1933, and the public statements made about the Berlin convention by Conrad Franke in lectures through out Germany some years ago. All of this I have made public in my book Apocalypse Delayed (1985) – which I know has been read at Watch Tower headquarters both from court documents and inside reports – and in the spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest. So it is impossible for responsible members of your organization not to know the facts. Thus the August 22 Awake! is nothing short of an historical abomination.
I am aware of the feeble attempt of the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses to exculpate Judge Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society in Brooklyn by claiming that the Society's German branch overseer, Paul Balzereit, "weakened" the "Erklarung". But the "Erklarung" or "Declaration" was published in both the German and English versions of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses as an official statement of the Watch Tower Society. So it is impossible to believe that it was not sanctioned by Rutherford and the man who succeeded him as the Society’s president, N H Knorr. Therefore, the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses of that time attempted to commit what amounted to spiritual whoredom with the Third Reich in the fashion of the two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah of Ezekiel 23, according to the Society’s own teachings

92

Compiling List-Trivial Items People Are Counseled Against

by love2Bworldly in

jw
friends

i hope this is not a repeat of past threads and i hope to get a lot of response.

i am compiling info of how people are treated within the wts.

i just read the post about a person being counseled for having baby shower games.

fiddler

Mostly I think I ignorred the idiots who made comments on all manner of personal stuff not their business but I do remember a few:

Moved from desert SW to Pacific NW in the 1970's and was told my dresses were too short......lowered the hems

Moved back to Arizona in the 1980's and was told my dresses were too long......laughed it off and wore what I wanted.

In Arizona the congos I went to also didn't insist on nylons in the summer although maybe that has changed. I NEVER wore nylons in summer. I had a good tan. The brothers were supposed to wear their suit jackets in service but most didn't if they were working past 10:30 AM.......too damn hot. AND the first thing that always got ripped off the minute my husband got in the car after meeting was the neck strangler.

Speaking of my husband, one time at a dinner an elder made the comment that brothers with ANY facial hair usually were weak from his observation. My husband was sitting there with his neat little mustache that he'd had for years (brother worked with him and had never noticed it!) so I pointed it out and in a way that effectively shut down that conversation. My husband kept his mustache.

An elders wife told me that getting a second piercing in my earlobe was a homosexual thing. At the time my understanding was gay guys wore only one earring and I forget which ear it was in but whatever, I got my second piercing anyway.

Sheesh, no wonder I'm no longer a JW but honestly.......I thought I was a good little witness back in the day. I do have to say that I must have attended more 'liberal' congos most of the time because most of the ones I was in we'd have a good laugh about those elderettes and and co's that presummed to make none of their business comments for everyone. Also, the young sisters were usually like a fashion parade at assemblies and memorials. The young guys had it harder to be fashionable I think.

One last thing...........what's with the white shirt thing? Isn't that a Mormon thing?

18

Bombing of KH in Sydney australia late 1980's ?

by zeb in

i recall the moment i heard of this on the radio.

but there was little mention of it in months oryears later.. does anyone know what became of the victims?.

fiddler

I used to have a tape recording of the talk given by a CO at the time.........I only remember thinking he sounded like 'Crocodile Dundee'

It was a full accounting of the event. I also remember the CO guy swearing at one point ON THE RECORDING about all the calls coming in..........they were all a little sleep deprived or something like that. Anyways, I've also always wondered whatever happened with that CO. He seemed like a pretty likeable person with even a bit of a sense of humor. Anyone know who the CO was in that area at the time?

133

What state are you from?

by Junction-Guy in

this is for the us crowd, what state do you live in?

or from?----i live in tennessee, but from ohio and kentucky.

fiddler

Born in Arizona (Phoenix area) but have lived in Oregon much longer. Family is mostly still in Phx.