I at least got the text up there even if the print DID come out so small you can't read it
Scratch that last sentence.......I just figured out how to edit. YEAH!
fiddler
JoinedPosts by fiddler
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fiddler
H ebrews 8:7
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
At first glance it seems to be saying that the first covenant had some problems and so a new one was sought ~ which just leads to the conclusion IMHO that the new one could be just as flawed as the old one and on and on it goes with covenants made by men (or women if that had been allowed ).
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Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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fiddler
This has been such an interesting discussion and kind of helps explain my choice to continue with the religion. I had left the belief system when I was 14/15 but due to getting in with a not so good environment at school got my life in a bit of a mess. The religion was the only 'safe' place I could think to return to.
The meetings and the attitudes WERE a lot more liberal back then. I got married in 1977 and my husband grew a mustache that he kept until chemo got rid of it. I do remember one elder making some snide comment about men with facial hair never getting anywhere in the congregation not even realizing that my husband had one.......what an awkward moment that was. That was in the 80's so the tides were changing. Then through the 90's I grew increasing sad and depressed because as you pointed out, having come in in the 70's we all retained that mindset because it was more NATURAL and loving.
I do remember the James book and in fact, just before I finally called it quits with the JW's in 1999 I re-read that and attempted to read some of the other old study books. I was even rebuked for mentioning the James book by a pioneer sister. I had NO IDEA why or that it was attributed to Ray Franz. After I left I was given the old "you weren't studying enough" lecture by my Aunt on our final conversation before it bacame clear to her that I was an official 'apostate'. I replied back to her that it was exactly because I was studying so much that I left!" I didn't find out until a few years later on one of the ex-JW sites that the rank and file were actually being told not to read old literature. To me, as a born in 3rd generation JW that just seemed so wrong. If the literature was 'directed by holy spirit' back in the 60's and 70's or the Russel to Rutherford years for that matter, it STILL should have had some value to my way of thinking.
During the 80's I was a young mother of 4 little ones and spent a great deal of time in the 'mothers room' and although the talks were piped in you KNOW we all sat back there and talked LOL! I probably missed a few things but all in all, I was quite a 'studier' and I also took notes at all the assemblies in shorthand and could often get quiet a few word for word quotes written down. Those notes I 'noted' seemed to be the basis of the next years Watchtowers and TM meetings so I was also getting a lot.
By the late 90's I started seeing the similarity of the accounts of the Israelites being so much like the modern fundementalist Islamics and Sharia law. So.......that's when the complete mental fog finally started to lift and the scales fell of my eyes. Oh yeah.........the Internet helped immensely as well.
So again.......this topic makes so much sense to me. I think having you former elders and MS insights into things clears up so many of the things we R & F witnesses sensed but didn't know. I have kicked myself so many times for 'falling for it' for so long. This kind of explains what hooked us in the first place. Once hooked it IS very difficult to get unhooked.
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May 15, 2013 WT up on jw.org now
by Gayle inhas article, page 32 which states about their 'neutrality' policy.
although our position as christian neutrals may not have been fully understood by our brothers nearly a century ago, they sought to please jehovah god.
this is aggravating, as the wts had 'policy' for so many years that jws could not do 'alternative' service.
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fiddler
So I guess Judge Rutherford also didn't fully understand the issue of neutrality??
What about the 1933 'Declaration' to Hitler that the was written up in the 1934 YB
http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents/1934_Year_Book.pdf (I think it starts on about pg. 131.)
JW apologists will say that it had no politics nor anti-Semetism suggested in it but I beg to differ. I came to the same conclusions as James Penton. a former elder, who brought this issue up with the governing body in the 1980's and got disfellowshipped. I guess it created quite a stir in Canada! He seemed to have been still a very active Christian and got his own little breakaway group going but regardless........he made some valid points about that declaration. http://ed5015.tripod.com/JwJamesPenton108.htm
and excerpt here:
The Watch Tower Society has long attempted a cover-up of the most dishonest sort. While your organization properly censures other religious communities for their compromise with and support of Nazism, ittries to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses alone were never guilty of such compromise. Yet history tells a different story. The "Erklarung" or "Declaration" published by the Watch Tower Society at the Berlin Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses in June 1933 is, in itself, clear evidence that the Society’s president, Judge J. F. Rutherford, as accompanied by N.H. Knorr, manifested anti-Semitism, hostility to Great Britain and the United States and to the League of Nations. Furthermore, the "Erklarung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.
In addition to the "Erklarung", there is the evidence of the Society's letter to Hitler sent on or immediately following June 25, 1933, and the public statements made about the Berlin convention by Conrad Franke in lectures through out Germany some years ago. All of this I have made public in my book Apocalypse Delayed (1985) – which I know has been read at Watch Tower headquarters both from court documents and inside reports – and in the spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest. So it is impossible for responsible members of your organization not to know the facts. Thus the August 22 Awake! is nothing short of an historical abomination.
I am aware of the feeble attempt of the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses to exculpate Judge Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society in Brooklyn by claiming that the Society's German branch overseer, Paul Balzereit, "weakened" the "Erklarung". But the "Erklarung" or "Declaration" was published in both the German and English versions of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses as an official statement of the Watch Tower Society. So it is impossible to believe that it was not sanctioned by Rutherford and the man who succeeded him as the Society’s president, N H Knorr. Therefore, the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses of that time attempted to commit what amounted to spiritual whoredom with the Third Reich in the fashion of the two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah of Ezekiel 23, according to the Society’s own teachings
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Compiling List-Trivial Items People Are Counseled Against
by love2Bworldly ini hope this is not a repeat of past threads and i hope to get a lot of response.
i am compiling info of how people are treated within the wts.
i just read the post about a person being counseled for having baby shower games.
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fiddler
Mostly I think I ignorred the idiots who made comments on all manner of personal stuff not their business but I do remember a few:
Moved from desert SW to Pacific NW in the 1970's and was told my dresses were too short......lowered the hems
Moved back to Arizona in the 1980's and was told my dresses were too long......laughed it off and wore what I wanted.
In Arizona the congos I went to also didn't insist on nylons in the summer although maybe that has changed. I NEVER wore nylons in summer. I had a good tan. The brothers were supposed to wear their suit jackets in service but most didn't if they were working past 10:30 AM.......too damn hot. AND the first thing that always got ripped off the minute my husband got in the car after meeting was the neck strangler.
Speaking of my husband, one time at a dinner an elder made the comment that brothers with ANY facial hair usually were weak from his observation. My husband was sitting there with his neat little mustache that he'd had for years (brother worked with him and had never noticed it!) so I pointed it out and in a way that effectively shut down that conversation. My husband kept his mustache.
An elders wife told me that getting a second piercing in my earlobe was a homosexual thing. At the time my understanding was gay guys wore only one earring and I forget which ear it was in but whatever, I got my second piercing anyway.
Sheesh, no wonder I'm no longer a JW but honestly.......I thought I was a good little witness back in the day. I do have to say that I must have attended more 'liberal' congos most of the time because most of the ones I was in we'd have a good laugh about those elderettes and and co's that presummed to make none of their business comments for everyone. Also, the young sisters were usually like a fashion parade at assemblies and memorials. The young guys had it harder to be fashionable I think.
One last thing...........what's with the white shirt thing? Isn't that a Mormon thing?
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Bombing of KH in Sydney australia late 1980's ?
by zeb ini recall the moment i heard of this on the radio.
but there was little mention of it in months oryears later.. does anyone know what became of the victims?.
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fiddler
I used to have a tape recording of the talk given by a CO at the time.........I only remember thinking he sounded like 'Crocodile Dundee'
It was a full accounting of the event. I also remember the CO guy swearing at one point ON THE RECORDING about all the calls coming in..........they were all a little sleep deprived or something like that. Anyways, I've also always wondered whatever happened with that CO. He seemed like a pretty likeable person with even a bit of a sense of humor. Anyone know who the CO was in that area at the time?
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133
What state are you from?
by Junction-Guy inthis is for the us crowd, what state do you live in?
or from?----i live in tennessee, but from ohio and kentucky.
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fiddler
Born in Arizona (Phoenix area) but have lived in Oregon much longer. Family is mostly still in Phx.
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I HAVE RETURNED TO THE TRUTH
by wasblind injwn that is .
those of you who click this link it's not at all what you think and you have been hoodwinked .
and if your still part of a religion that predicted the end over (1914 ) and over (1925 ).
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fiddler
You know.........until you said it, I had not thought about the fact that 'Satan told the same lie'...........good point!
"............you won't die for god knows..............." yes, it's total BS!
As for the rest of what you said..........I couldn't agree more.
*false prophecies
*can't preach your way to 'salvation'
*a grandmother's generation is CERTAINLY a different one from her granddaughters.
Glad I went and looked anyway at this thread.........it did seem a bit ominous at the outset.
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JW spin on the lady that got murderd my Holt
by greenhornet injamie smithmatthew patonken olsenlaurakenivycourtkkrb777lauramatthewepatonmatthewepaton invited more 2 of 2,300 detailed account by whitney heichel's elderinboxx.
11:42 pm (9 hours ago) to undisclosed recipientsdetailed account by whitney heichel's elder.
by candice corinne bertram on monday, october 29, 2012 at 12:42pm .
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fiddler
This is really not about Whitney or the letter but I just had to say, tonight is Halloween and it's been raining ALL WEEK but since 4:30 pm the rain stopped and it's been just a wonderful fall evening free of rain for the Halloween trick or treaters.
Must be divine intervention!
just saying...........
That letter was written by an idiot IMHO.
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Letter From Whitney's Mother
by breakfast of champions injust saw this on google news.
link to letter here.. .
dear family, i want to tell you that although this has been the worst of my lifes tribulations, that i am still standing.. the obvious reason is that jehovah is the faithful keeper of promises holding to his word that never, would his great love allow his precious children to be tested beyond what we could bear.
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fiddler
AnneB, as a mother I appreciate what you are saying........I will focus my healing thoughts towards the mother and the family......Clint and also the father and the siblings.........when all this publicity dies down they will be left with the stark facts. Whitney is gone and killed by one of their own.