btw nan, if you argue with them and you get nowhere, you are arguing with them wrong =D dont' use things that go against their teachings. use their own ideas and experiences and such. sometimes if they open up to questioning, search this site and ask them a few basic questions (none to set off the alert signal in their heads). its a long and difficult process, but behind every JW there is a good person =D (minus Ted Jaracz, he's just another Rutherford). btw, if they keep on saying that you can't change them, ignore it and keep on slowly persisting. a little pressure every day makes an impression, whereas a lot of pressure all at once doesn't do shit.