Trinity- True or False

by defd 215 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Hellrider


    In fact, many OT scriptures referring to Yahweh are applied to Jesus in the NT because YHWH is rendered as kurios "Lord" in the Greek. ; The title "Lord" in the NT thus is pregnant with allusion to Yahweh and his authority.

    Yes, and also: It is also possible that Jesus name, or "versions" of Jesus name, contains Gods name, even in the New Testament. "Yehushua", would mean "Yhwh is salvation". But the point is that this is absolutely not what JWs mean, when they claim that "Gods name was removed from the greek manuscripts". They mean that quite literally, that someone actually replaced Jehovah (which is ridicolous, the "Jehovah"-version of the word didn`t appear until the 12th century, the word in biblicial times were Yahowah) with "the lord".

  • Sunspot
    I agree with why the jews didnt utter Gods name. There were other reasons as well. Supersticious reasons also. Now I ask you. Would Jesus, Gods own son follow along with those reasons? No he would not and did not. In prayer to his Father he said," I have made your NAME known and will continue to make it KNOWN." Even in the model prayer that so many people RECITE he said Hallowed be thy NAME. He taught his followers to pray for the hallowing of Gods name. Gods name was very important to Jesus. You can not tell me he did not use it. Besides, It is in the greek scriptures, there is proof!

    The model prayer (the WTS even has to change THAT to "model" because the rest of humanity calls it the LORD'S Prayer) where Jesus was teaching his followers how to pray, he does not use the "Divine Name" at all!

    Don't you think that IF saying the name was so all-fired important---that he would have used it???? THINK about it, and this has absolutely nothing to DO with any superstition!

    All this WTS hoopla about using the name (and most often OVERusing it ad nauseum) is from the fertile imaginations of old men in Brooklyn. How many times have we heard about a "good name" being the most important thing we can own? When we think of God's "name", isn't it the fact that his "name" is flawless, and that He never lies, and that we can put our full trust in what he says?

    Could it mean that he is Just, and will carry out JUSTICE as promised? That He is a God of mercy and will see to it that mercy and forgiveness for all our human foibles and mistakes will be dissolved one day?

    Could it possibly be that His LOVE for all mankind is evident throughout the earth and that the scripture at Romans 8:38-39 proves that he does, despite the ravings of hateful men in a controlling and evil cult?

    A "name" has many meanings, and the fact that Jesus chose NOT to use that name in ANY of the Greek scriptures must stand for something!!!


  • Honesty

    I am one of Jehovah's people but I do not just believe in Jesus.

    Oh no, I believe Him.

    The JW's do not believe Him because if they did they would not accept the New World Translation because it was written to dethrone Jesus.

    This is no more evident than in the 8th chapter of John. Take a look at the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures published by the WTBTS and you willl see the WatchTower lie.

    Jesus is I AM.

    John 1:1 says:

    *** Rbi8 John 1:1 ***1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

    Which one is the one true God and which one is a false god? Or, are both of them the one true God?

    A proper translation causes no confusion:

    John 1:1 (HCSB)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Jesus is God. He is one of the three manifestations of God; Father, Spirit and Son.

    defd: Do you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If so, why have I never heard it among the Witnesses?

    I do admit and have noticed that Jehovahs people do not talk about Jesus enough. That does not mean, however that they Do not believe in him. We do believe he is our Lord and Savior. It is printed in the WT alot. defd

    Do you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If you confess Jesus and the WTBTS becomes aware of your new found faith you will certtainly be brought up on charges of apostasy. If you don't believe it then tell your local BOE and see what happens within a few hours of your confession.

  • Hellrider

    LoL, easy there sunspot, I am trying to get him into a dialogue here. I agree with you, and I personally see the "Hallowed be thy name" in the prayer, as a proof that Jesus is part of the jewish tradition of "not taking the lords name in wain", that the "hallowed"-part actually might be a command not to use it in wain. But I`m waiting for DefDs reply to my question: What proof can you provide me with, that the OT-gods name, YHWH, or even Yahowah or Jahve, was used in the original greek manuscripts. I mean, if this was actually the case (although no original manuscripts has been found, using the name), there would have to be written articles by serious academics, discussing this issue, would it not? What proof has the WTbts, that this is the case? Please provide me with other "proof" than the "the WTbts says it is so", DefD. (If I may seem sarcastic, this is not with intent, I am genuinely interested in this) And please everyone, unless DefD just leaves and refuses to answer our questions, let`s try to be polite. I`m genuinely interested in finding out why the WTbts so absolutely believes this, that Gods name was used in the NT, but that it was removed.

  • the_classicist

    I accept the Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils which say, "We believe... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten begotten from the Father, that is from the substance of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father, through whom all things came to be, both those in heaven and those in earth... And those who say "there once was when he was not", and "before he was begotten he was not", and that he came to be from things that were not, or from another hypostasis or substance, affirming that the Son of God is subject to change or alteration - these the catholic and apostolic church anethematises" (Council of Nicene, Profession of Faith of the 318 Fathers).

    Indeed, the idea of the rejection of the Trinity is based upon sola scriptura: a flawed doctrine to begin with. Here's a syllogism someone else came up with:

    Premise 1: All divine Revelation is contained in the Scriptures.

    Premise 2: It is through divine Revelation that we received the Canon of Scripture.


    As the Canon of Scripture is not found in the Scriptures, either Premise 1 or Premise 2 is false.

    If Premise 1 is false, then divine Revelations also exist which are not contained in the Scriptures.

    If Premise 2 is false, then the Canon of Scripture is merely a tradition of men, and men may add or subtract books as they see fit.

  • M.J.

    The knowledge book states (Ch 3, paragraph 11):

    The Egyptian warriors cried: “Let us flee from any contact with Israel, because Jehovah certainly fights for them against the Egyptians.” But it was too late. The vast walls of water crashed down and “covered the war chariots and the cavalrymen belonging to all of Pharaoh’s military forces.” (Exodus 14:22-25, 28) Jehovah thus made a great name for himself, and that event has not been forgotten to this day.—Joshua 2:9-11.

    What does it mean by Jehovah making a great name for himself? Does it mean that on this occasion he actually named himself? Or is it speaking of his reputation? Couldn't Christ have been speaking of the Father's name in the same sense? has some good points to consider with respect to the OT YHWH and Christ.

    (sheesh what's up with text being cut off in my posts today?)

  • defd


    It is all at your finger tips. The internet supplies us with the information you are looking for. Type in biblical manuscripts or Greek manuscripts. You will find it.

  • Leolaia


    On the title page, it has the following dedication:

    To the King of kings and Lord of lords:




    AND OF



    AND OF



    This Work is Dedicated.

    The "Prefatory" also states: "Both words and music are credited to the same class to whom the work is dedicated—to the Lord and his faithful people, 'the Saints' ". Here are the hymns and whom they primarily refer to:

    Hymn 1: Abide, Sweet Spirit (about the Holy Spirit)
    Hymn 2: Remember Me (about "my dying Lord ... Lamb of God, my sacrifice")
    Hymn 3: Come to Me (about the crucified Lord)
    Hymn 4: My Goal is Christ ("My goal is Christ and Christ alone")
    Hymn 5: Alas! And Did my Saviour Bleed? (about the crucified Christ)
    Hymn 6: The Little Flock (about the "Saints" and "the Chief Shepherd")
    Hymn 7: A Little While (about the second coming of "Lord Jesus")
    Hymn 8: All For Jesus ("All for Jesus! Let my lips speak forth his praise!")
    Hymn 9: The Mighty to Save ("All glory to Jesus be giv'n"...entirely about Jesus)
    Hymn 10: All Hail ("All hail the power of Jesus' name ... And crown him Lord of all")
    Hymn 11: All People That on Earth Do Dwell ("The Lord ye know is God indeed")
    Hymn 12: All the Way My Saviour Leads Me ("Jesus led me all the way", about Jesus as Lord)
    Hymn 13: Self-Examination ("Am I a follower of the Lamb ... Shall I blush to speak of his name?")
    Hymn 14: Full Surrender (about the Redeemer, Jesus receiving the souls of those who die)
    Hymn 15: Hope in Christ ("Whose the name I glory in? Jesus Christ the Crucified")
    Hymn 16: Prayer of the Consecrated (about the birth of Jesus in the manger)
    Hymn 17: Moses and the Lamb (about "Christ, the eternal King")
    Hymn 18: Jerusalem, Awake! (about God and the Word)
    Hymn 19: His Loving Kindness (praising the Redeemer, "earth's rightful King")
    Hymn 20: Awake, My Soul (about the heavenly resurrection, "Blest Saviour introduced by thee")
    Hymn 21: Wondrous Grace (about the Father bestowing grace and the Father's love, to be "Christ's jointheir and bride")

    It goes on like this to Hymn 337. Other Christ-centered hymns include: "Saviour Help Us," All to Thee", "Christ is Come!", "Christ's Resurrection", "Buried With Christ", "Full Salvation", "Jesus is Mine!", "The Word of God", "Forever With the Lord", "Praise the Lord", "Worthy the Lamb", "I Will Praise Thee", "Christ's Glorious Reign", "Jesus Reigns", "The Saviour Comes", "Glory to the Lamb", "Jesus is There", "The Song of Moses and the Lamb", "The Bridal Robe", "Christ's Victory", "The Name of Jesus", "I Came to Jesus", "My Redeemer Lives", "All With Jesus", "Christ Our Passover", "Trust In Christ", "I Will Sing For Jesus", "My Redeemer", "Jesus, Refuge of My Soul", "Jesus Shall Reign", "The Sweetest Name", "Accept Our Praises, Lord", "Jesus Wept", "Joy to the World," "Keep Me Lord", "Christ Our Life", "Hid With Christ", "Hail the King!", "Love of Jesus", "What A Saviour", "Our King is Marching On", "My Song of Jesus", "Jesus Paid it All", "Rest In Christ", "The Precious Blood", "Christ's Matchless Worth", etc. etc. on and on. There is much, much more, but it would take far too long to list them all; I think you get the point. I did a word search for "Jehovah" in the hymnal; this name appears 8 times. The name "Jesus" alone (not counting "Christ", "Lord", "Saviour" or the other names and titles) occurs about 275 times.

  • M.J.

    nope. It's not there defd. Please show us, as you seem to be the only one I've ever heard make that claim.

  • Sunspot


    It is all at your finger tips. The internet supplies us with the information you are looking for. Type in biblical manuscripts or Greek manuscripts. You will find it.

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