by defd 215 Replies latest watchtower bible
When God said to be making man in "OUR" image (Gen1:26), it couldn't be "angels" He spoke to, and the only logical explanation would have to be Jesus who was there. as it later says its in the image of GOD (not God and angels) man is created. Angels where not created in the image of God.
see also GEN 3:22
Well, I know people who would disagree with you, Tyre. None of us or anyone alive now was there, so who knows what was meant,
Cygnus,
Thanks for the kind words. It is remarkable how everyone wants to blame Demons for everything as if they were on a Witch_hunt as they read scripture. Yet such Egyptians that left with the Israelites were eye witnesses to the miracles performed by Moses and embraced YHWH the God of Moses when they left their country or first estate. They were indeed messengers (angels) to such facts as were the Israelites. Important lessons that should have been learned from this are lost because of such shortsightedness. But now at least we can better understand how translation plays an important role in such thinking.
Consider the Kingdom for example. It is difficult to imagine how anyone resurrected into this Kingdom as an immortal human being could fail the final test, but many will. After witnessing the greatest miracles of all time how could they rebel? This is but one analogy that can be made of those events. It is not over until it is over and we are not there yet. At least Jude knew about such shortcomings and was making them known in his day.
Joseph
Inq:
Your fatal assumption is that we're trying to change your opinion. Why would we do that?
Robust discussion is not proselytisation...
Tyre:Compare to Gen.1:26, 27 to Rom.8:29.
Does this elevate man or denigrate God, or something else?
I don't know if I can breath life into the thread I killed (sorry Ballistic - I'm knocking you off your spot), but may I ask this?
Why is it that every angel refuses worship, but Jesus doesn't?
I'm not talking about after he's glorified, back in heaven, but while he's on earth allegedly in a state of "humiliation" (Phil.2:6-8)?
If he has only received glory, and hence the ability to be worshipped, due to his sacrifice, how come he was being worshipped beforehand? If he is only a king after his triumphal return (or after 1914, as some would have it ), why does he receive and accept worship beforehand (John 9:38; 20:28, etc., etc., etc., etc.)?
Even Revelations makes no distinction about the kind of "proskuneo", that he receives, from that of the Father.
Again, I'm not touching the Trinity doctrine with a barge-pole. I'm simply touching on things pertaining to Christ.
LT, the best explanation I've read to answer your question is Stafford's, where he points to some passage in Chronicles somewhere that says the Israelites worshipped their king, along with worshipping Jehovah. ("proskuneo" in the Septuagint) So humans, with Jehovah's approval, can receive such "worship" if rightly devoted.
...and yet he wasn't (allegedly) just an imperfect king. Even the angel in Revelation 22:9 refuses worship, stating that he's a fellow-worker. Isn't this also Jesus role as co-ruler / co-heir?
Shouldn't a king also refuse "worship"? If that's the sense of it? That notwithstanding, I think the context of those texts show that it was more than just the bow or curtsy that would be given a king...
If Jesus had perfect knowledge of who he was (as per the WTS), how come he accepted it, since he was not glorified, nor king, at this point?
So LT, how many angels do you think would fit on the head of a pin?
Cygnus, of the 'I don't need no stinkin' sleep class'
Try sticking a pin in an angel, and see what ya get
That's a bit of a dismissive observation, really. The point of my posting is that JWs generally don't think for themselves, especially concerning theology and the role of Christ in scripture. They have become so fixated on "Jehovah" and refuting "Christendom" that they miss so much.
My own journey began upon the dawning realisation that Christ was more than I'd ever been taught...
...and the rest, as they say, is history!
Joe,
You seem to have a huge problem even discssing the book of John:
1) The book was written for the purpose of debunking the gnostics, who spiritualized Christ's risen body (as the WTS does) AND the Jews, specifically the Ebionite sect.
2) Translations and commentaries have gotten better with the massive amount of N.T. manuscript evidence. The respected and knowledgable scholars agree on the fact that John was in fact proclaiming the deity of Jesus.
3) Alternative word meanings being applied to shed doubt on the passages of N.T. showing the deity of Christ are ludicrous in light of the overwhelming evidence. YOU create contradiction is scripture with your dogmatic assertions AND you promote polytheism, just like your former teachers, the WBTS.
Why does the Watchtower have to change scripture in over 300 places in order to teach this heresy?
Why do they have to quote commentators and greek language translators out of context?
Why do they have to LIE, Joe, if they are teaching the 'truth'?
Ex-JW who continue to insist that the WBTS is correct about their heretical teachings miss the whole point of leaving the BORG.
Rex
