Jehovah's Witnesses as "a people......"

by ScoobySnax 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TooOpinionated

  That feeling of love (which I fell for at first, too) is actually nothing more than conformity. It's like anything else-when practiced enough, it becomes second nature. I don't know how many times I said the same things over and over at conventions and acted in the expected accepted way, even when I was dog tired, etc. And underneath it all was still the pettiness of people knowing way too much about each other just brewing under the surface.

  The fear of being thrown out of this "elite" group goes a long way to making everyone give the appearance of love.

  There are many groups that become close knit and lean on each other, help each other at a moment's notice, etc. Unconditionally. Perhaps volunteering at one or becoming involved in something of that nature could help.
• 

  hopelesslystained

  Evil, you are so right about the 'unconditional love' it is non-existant within the org. All things for the good Jw is on a conditional basis. It does not matter to them who you are. Just your outside shell is important and responded to. They are afraid of real human emotion. there are just too many things to deal with when we have human emotion (which should be considered God given by them), it would just be simply 'too much' for those who feel "God" is speaking though them (there is medication for this). It's sad because they want it to be different I think, but one must tow the GB line you know ;) and only because they have bought the everlasting life product. which incidentaly is based on nothing more than hopeful perception and interpretation. AND a good business plan.
• 

  ScoobySnax

  are all these other groups just "conformity" too or have you fallen for some other scam too?

  For christs sake.......the thing I never understand is why you think all this decietfullness is a "Witness" thing, its almost like a conspiracy thing going on. Clearly I'm mistaken and didn't see what I see. I'm dumb. I'll go and sit back in the corner. Could it be that like I've said before you've become blindly condemnating even more so than the group you once belonged to? I've been away for a long time too, but you weaken your position by condemning everything, with no concessions. have a think.
• 

  dorayakii

  Although the togetherness and good behavior of most Jehovah's Witnesses is commendable, it must be noted that the composition and purpose of being in a crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses is far different from being in a crowd of other people, particulary sports fans.

  Firstly, in a JW crowd, there is a mixture of old and young, families, single people and children, and the purpose is to calmly listen to talks and experiences for hours. Usually at a sports function or other, the crowd consists mainly of testosterone filled young to middle-aged men, who rowdily go to watch a football or rugby match.

  At a convention, emphasis is placed on good behavior so as not to give "worldly" people a bad impression of us, whereas at a sports game there is no real effort made to get fans to conform to a set standard of behavior.

  Secondly, I think that because of the Watch Tower Organisation's emphasis on unity and conformity, i think a lot of emphasis goes into our holier-than-thou image to simulate a sense of "brotherhood" and "togetherness". In line with the paradox, if Jehovah wasn't watching what you would do, would you strill do good?, i think we need to ask the question, "when you go out of the convention, do you remove your label-badge in order to try and "get away" with more?"...

  A good example of JW "togetherness", is being on holiday and seeing a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses on the street. Usually the instant reaction is to approach them and introduce yourself as a brother. This instantly produces a warm welcome. If however, you introduce yourself as "a fellow Christian", the reaction is cold until they have identified what sort of Christian you are. They are highly intolerant of even a slight deviaion from what is accepted as the norm and there is no diversity of thought. The "togetherness" has expressed itself as dogmatic "uniformity".

  I think that a state of "brotherhood" is normal for other high-control religious groups, and i do also think that for all the positiveness that this image of "togetherness" can achieve, it can also be a dangerous factor in visibly excluding those who are not part of the "in-group". I heard a lot of disparaging off-hand comments in the Gillingham car park about certain ones coming to the assembly in plain clothes or without a lapel-badge. As Jehovah's Witnesses, we can maintain a semblance of love and togetherness, but these qualities are conditional. They are conditional upon the recipiant of those qualities being one of Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing, and to be frank, everyone else can go to hell (or gehenna)...
• 

  gringojj

  I dont think you could look at any large group of people gathered together in the name of thier god and not see love. When all the people went to Italy when the pope died, did you see any lack of love? How about all the people who go to Mecca every day? Any love missing there? I guess the real test is when you mix religions together. For example in the newest awake it talked about a jw couple who was in the tsunami and the jws from a cong 85 miles away rushed there to look for them. That shows how selfish they are. Its the people who dont care about religion in times like that and will help any man or woman in need at that time that shows true love amongst themsleves. Its a quality that is found in people, not organized religion.

  Gringojj of the I hope I dont get involved in a natural disaster around the kingdom hall class
• 

  hopelesslystained

  It is not "just a witness thing" It is just what we here have been exposed to and experienced. But undeniably one of the undesireable concotions of power hungry individuals with an natural ability to rise above and control others who are looking for direction in their lives.
• 

  dorayakii

  I've never seen that in other group en mass.

  May i ask you which other groups you have associated with?...

  Could it be that like I've said before you've become blindly condemnating even more so than the group you once belonged to?

  There is also such a thing as being blindly accepting... Blind faith is no faith at all... When you see the bad in other organisations and call it "satanic", then see the same in your OWN organisation and call it "mere human imperfection" there is a bias thing going on there. The struggles that you go through are not viewed as struggles by the Organisation. They view you as willfully disobeying God-given direction. And because of that they will treat you as garbage. I am only now learning to love unconditionally, because there are so many barriers put in my head by the WT society. My conscience doesn't allow me anymore to treat people in such a way. You keep telling people off here for being "apostates", but if you were to go back to the Hall and tell the Body of Elders the truth about your life-style and the fact that you visit JWD regularly, and your opinion on their beliefs, they will label YOU and apostate, disfellowship YOU, and reject you completely. I can never understand people who have to go throught things THEMSELVES before they can see the danger. Its like a child who you tell not to touch the fire, but they think its soooo beautiful and couldn't imagine the pain it could cause them. They may not actually touch the fire, but they will not see its anger and will still have the potential to do so. The Organisation is a wonderful thing... its big and beautiful and fast-growing and shiny... but it adds layer upon layer of convoluted prophecy, doctine and regulations upon the simple words of the Bible... Because of this, no matter how wonderful they seem in an en masse environment, they would not be so loving if they get to know you or your "sin" on a personal basis.
• 

  EvilForce

  Scooby...I hope I didn't offend you I'm just rather passionate about my responses on this topic.
  
  It's not a "conspiracy theory" as you claim. The Dubs set themselves ABOVE everyone else saying how much love they show and no other group shows as much love, blah, blah, blah. So when you set yourself above everyone else perhaps you get judged more in-depth.
• 

  Big Tex

  Howdy Scott.

  Can I ask you a question (after this one I mean)? Seriously now, and I hope you take this well. I've known you now on these boards for nearly 3 years, and you've asked this question in various forms many times. Really now, in all candor, what do you get out of this exercise?

  I'm asking, not to argue or anything, but because I'm truly interested. You've asked this question so many times that I'm convinced it means something to you, but I'm just not sure what it is. I think you've got some issues with the Witnesses. At the same time, and forgive me if I am overstepping, you can't quite accept yourself for who you are. You do seem to, at least sometimes, be chasing after windmills in that you seem have an ideal of who you want to be, and where you want to be and that is at odds with who you really are.

  Is this question more about trying to find reasons to go back to the Witnesses, and thereby turn your back on who you are on the inside? It's not really about Jehovah's Witnesses, is it Scott? It's about something else, and that intrigues me.

  I really don't want to uncover you, or embarass you but at the same time I don't think you can move forward in this life as long as you are stuck in this rut. You know deep in your gut where you belong, but living in the past isn't your answer. You deserve to find as much happiness in this life as you allow yourself, and I'd like to see that happen.

  Chris
• 

  Honesty

  JW's really are a good bunch of people. I've been in lots of crowds, at stadiums and arenas, but an assembly is something else, it is somehow unique, its somehow different from any other crowds, there is a deep sense of "togetherness" I've not see any where else. You can strip everything else away from the Witnesses, but I don't think you can take that away.
  

  
  
  What do you think......?

  
  

  
  That's true... unless you happen to voice a different viewpoint.

  My only crime against the WTBTS was bringing the UN/NGO debacle to the attention of the BOE in my local congregation. Because I refused to accept their explanation to wait on Jehovah for some 'new light' I am now exposed to conduct by most of them I still consider friends that I would not wish on Adolph Hitler, Saddam Hussein or any other modern-day despot.

  When my worship of Jesus is factored in to the equation, the general consensus of the local JW community is that I have turned into an evil apostate who is worthy of a violent death at the hands of the WT god.

  Each individual Jehovah's Witness is being held in the grip of Satan and many of them don't even realise it. I pray that they will see it for themselves one day.

  I sincerely believe your concept of 'togetherness is very distorted. The proper wording here should really be 'conformity'. Conformity is the only principle that the JW's share.