First Post

by 5thGeneration 75 Replies latest jw friends

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    Hi 5th, it is nice to have you here.

    When I was a jw and faced the {vasectomy} issue, I just found the right time " a fishing trip with friends non jw's of course" and had it done in private. For reasons not known, I came home with no fish.

    I am sure some here will expound on this sentence.

    Don't worry about us trying to convert or corrupt you.

    We don't have the time or the inclination to do so.

    Although I ought to say, that once a person finds the means and the time to investigate his feelings and beliefs, it most usually results in some restructuring of beliefs.

    I once had all of your beliefs and fears and confusion and a lot of cognitive dissonance, which displayed itself as a constant low level of anger. sometimes called as depression.

    Now I find myself pondering God and Jesus and the bible and the universe and myself without an interfering organization between us and all those unwanted troublesome mental / emotional feelings went away .

    I am responsible for my acts in life and the outcome and I have released the wbts from any responsibility. They thanked me in a rather strange way, but I accept that also.

    Outoftheorg

  • Aude_Sapere
    Aude_Sapere

    This is nice thera and PERFECT timing for me.
    Thanks for keeping it going!!

    Welcome to JWD, 5g! (insert smilie wave here)

    So much of what you state rings true for me. I so remember being conflicted about 11 or 12 years ago.

    I suddenly saw a clear distinction between Jehovah and Jesus and the WTS. I saw that the WTS was - in my heart - going against Jehovah's will. I ignorred that pain in my heart and tried to adjust my understanding. I just could not reconcile their then-current truth with what I clearly understood the Bible to say. After one meeting, I left immediately at the end of the closing prayer. Said my own brief prayer to Jehovah. "Jehovah, you know better than I do why I cannot stay and condone what I am seeing and hearing here. Please know that I am not leaving you. I just need to distance myself from these people."

    I trusted the Jehovah knew what was in my heart and it was just making me sick being in the Hall. I guess I 'marked' the organization. Not all the people in it, but the org as a whole.

    Thanks again for sharing! Glad to have you along and looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

    btw -
    **Vasectomies: Wrong. It is disrespect for God's reproductive gift. Cannot serve if you get one (I was an M.S.). **

    HUH???? This is news to me. What about tubal ligation? A MUCH more dangerous proceedure. If vasectomies are disrespectful, wouldn't condoms, contraceptives and tubal ligations also be disrespectful?
    Sorry. It sounds like the old guys are rearing their ugly misogynistic heads again.

    -Aude Sapere (meaing: Dare to Know; Dare to have Knowledge/Wisdom)

  • 5thGeneration
    5thGeneration

    But still plagued by guilt because Society says vasectomies are "wrong".

    The guilt is overwhelming for me! Just want to live my life with my family. Maybe I can't anymore.

  • EvilForce
    EvilForce

    Sorry but I have been "out of the truth" for 15 years now....when did male birth control become a "no no"?

  • homesteader
    homesteader

    Welcome to the board 5th.

    I''ve been away from the org. for 5 years now and believe in God more than I ever did. There's not a day that goes by that I don't thank God for the beauty that surrounds me not only in nature but in people. Life is better than any Paradise I could of imagined while being a JW. When i first quit attending meetings I had a hard time with the word Jehovah because it induced fear and brought back all the things I was trying to free my mind from so I began using the word Father when I prayed. You are asking some good questions and know that you aren't alone in your observations. Many of us have asked some of the very same things even though we are continents apart. Interesting. Also, I came to the conclusion that trying to live day to day life is a big enough challenge and that I can't figure what is going to happen in the future. That dispelled my fear of dying at Armeggedon. As for the folks on this board, I too was a little taken back by some of the crude remarks but have observed that we are all healing in own way. Many seem to have alot of anger toward the organization, justifiably so and express it in their own way. Some of the avatars were suprising to me, but I'm not bothered by them anymore. I sift through to read and respond to the posts that interest me. I've been helped very much by reading various experiences and thoughts although they differ from my own. God Bless on your journey. Grace.

  • Aude_Sapere
    Aude_Sapere

    **But still plagued by guilt because Society says .....

    The guilt is overwhelming for me!**

    I know this feeling. That guilt will kill you.
    My personal feeling (if you care to hear it) is that you and Jehovah know if you are really being 'disrespectful'. Sounds like just the opposite to me. You are looking to protect your wife from possible serious side-effects of contraceptives (respecting HER life and dignity) and maintaining the closeness that you have as a family. People choose to limit family size for so many reasons.
    You and Jehovah (and, hopefully, your wife) know full-well that a decision to have a vasectomy has NOTHING to do with DISrespect.
    Gotta let go of that guilt. Seriously, it can kill you.
    Certainly it can kill your true spirituality.
    It's spiritual abuse. I already believe that you are smarter than that.

    -Aude.

    PS I remember some threads here a few months ago about FOG.
    To see clearly, we need to get out of the FOG. Fear - Obligation - Guilt.
    Does anyone have the links???

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    Yes you can 5th!!

    You can live with your family.

    You may have to use a little spiritual warfare and move slowly while not revealing to others about your doubts.

    There are many posters here that still go to the meetings but have a situation similar to yours.

    Make your questions and fears known and those who succeeded will tell you what they did and what worked and not.

    The last I heard a vasectomy was a conscience matter and up to the individual.

    If you keep quiet about it you only have to deal with your conscience and not 4 or 5

    other conscience's of the elders. It is your and your wifes lives especially hers. Jehovah has forgiven much more than something this little. I mean the issue-not you.

    Outoftheorg

  • DelTheFunkyHomosapien
    DelTheFunkyHomosapien

    I'm new too 5TH and heres my 2cents.

    You say that you want the orginisation to change before going back (if you do fully leave that is). The only problem I see with that is that any Orginisation that claims to be in the 'truth' shouldn't have to change.

  • imfreeimfree
    imfreeimfree

    Welcome 5 th Generation,

    Your disappointment and pain is familiar to my wife and me. We were involved with the WBTS for 6 decades; I served in various positions of responsibility. As the years went by we became more and more convinced that they have never been appointed by God as the "slave"; they just wanted to advocate their own propaganda, and became slaves of their own concept. It is very disappointing that after spending extended periods of time in that system, one discovers that it is badly flawed, spiritually dysfunctional.

    Why didn’t I pay attention years ago to what they had to say in the brochure "Who Are They?": "Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that all religious teachings should be subjected to this test of agreement with the inspired Scriptures, whether the teaching is offered by them or by someone else. They invite you—urge you—to do this in your discussions with them." "Jehovah's witnesses in the Twentieth Century" pg. 4.

    They admit, there are mistakes in their literature : "It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." Awake March 22, 1993 pg 4.

    The WBTS insist that the R& F are to accept everything that is presented by the GB as coming direct from God; mistakes and all blunders. Here is what was stated in the Watchtower 6/15/57 pg 370. "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the ‘slave’ as we would to the voice of God ..."

    The deceptive dates for Armageddon 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, did they originate with God? The endless record of flip flops, where did all these come from? From the men who are prisoners of their own theology; the GB, and not from God.

    In the following article the WBTS acknowledge that there is a good reason why they cannot be trusted. "It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating - 'wishy washy' - about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?" the Watchtower, May 15 1976, pg. 298.

    You comment: "The guilt is overwhelming for me! Just want to live my life with my family. Maybe I can't anymore." Please, remember that we are not accountable to any man. Do no let the men who have not been appointed by God disturb your conscience; we are not accountable to them. Why permit imperfect men decide what is sinful. Not for a moment do I think you have anything to feel guilty about. Remember the account in 2 Chron.33:1-3, all that Jehovah forgave the wicked king Manasseh. There is nothing our God does not forgive. However, the case in point you refer to, I do not see any Scriptural infraction.

    It’s encouraging to note that you have not lost your faith in Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. My wife and I have not lost our spirituality or our belief in God and the Bible. To lose ones faith IMHO is like mislaying the compass, losing direction and spiritual focus. I find much peace of mind and heart by staying with the Scriptures, and hope and pray that I will never again abdicate to any human, or an organization.

    It takes time to make the required adjustments. You may wish to read the two books published by Ray Franz, "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom" by former member of the governing body. Ray is a fine, spiritual Christian and very much Bible oriented. You may purchase them from:

    [email protected]

    Wish you all the best on your journey.

    David

  • PaulJ
    PaulJ

    5G- i have a good idea of where you are coming from. I still believe in Jehovah, but also believe that the WTS are NOT his people. As far as the bible itself goes im very unsure, at least in the NWT version. Ive still got much research to do. Ive found that people on here believe so many different things, so always view everything you read with an open mind.

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