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by 5thGeneration 75 Replies latest jw friends

jaffacake

A Warm Welcome 5th G,

Please stick around, you'll get used to the diversity of views. I am not a JW but friends are & I've been studying with an elder for two months - I might also pick your brains if that's okay. I admire you posting on this board. I for one do not like to blaspheme, but whose definition of blasphemy? it is not possible to blaspheme against an organisation, God doen't have one & never did. Can I ask you what you have read in your research?
Which doctrines do you strongly believe are correct, and perhaps someone here can suggest where you cal look at a different viewpoint, so you can look at all sides.

Most JW doctrines were basically introduced by Joseph Rutherford in the 1930s. Have you studied Rutherford? His errors are still being followed by a Gov Body who now know they are wrong doctrines but can't change the most important ones for fear of what it would do to unity.

It is easy to find a hundred reasons to prove the JWs are not what they claim to be, but that is a negative approach. Another approach is to explore the true meaning of scriptures, and discover what truths JWs have hidden. Please pm me if you want some evidence. You have at your disposal a good Bible, not the NWT but the kingdom interlinear. One place you might want to start is by researching the tetragrammaton, just using the kingdom interlinear. Follow up each and every one of the 237 New Testament J-references to their sources. I believe that the oldest Greek Christian manuscripts (there are 5,000) are accurate copies inspired by God, if they are not then God has not preserved his word.

I believe in God whose personal name, especially to the jews, was and is Jahweh, Jehovah, or similar. That name does not appear in the inspired Christian Greek scriptures. Please check for yourself, it took me 8 months to complete the checking. A shocking outcome for some. This is because from the time of the Messiah, it is clear that it is JESUS name we must bear witness to. Jesus never said pray to Jehovah, he said pray our Father...There are excellent guides on this research, if you pm me I'll show you how to do this research without using any apostate literature.

Please stay with us, you are very welcome.
metatron

Welcome 5th!
Don't get too upset - there's a lot of different people who post here - and many of us have
gone thru the agony and confusion you're feeling right now. It's tough - when your whole
existence is wrapped around a religion like the "truth" - and you start realizing that things
aren't right.
After being a pioneer, a Bethelite - and later, an elder over the course of many years,
I slowly came to the conclusion that there isn't a single doctrine specific to Jehovah's
Witnesses that is based on solid fact. It's a lot of hunches, speculation and outright
nonsense all thrown together with the Watchtower saying, in effect, "you have to believe
this because we say so."
In addition, looking back at it all, I'm ashamed to think that I put such faith in an organization
that has been falsely prophesying "Armageddon is Soon!" for one hundred and twenty
years! Good grief! What was I thinking??!!
metatron
5thGeneration

Wow, too much to answer.
IT Support, appreciated your response. You asked: What made me start questioning the Society?
1. My easiest answer is passage of time. Family came into the truth 100 years ago. Seen my Great Grandfather die, Grand parents die, Father now in his 60s and ill. The Society just keeps on rolling and ignoring human emotion and any doubt one may have. We are basically now told "so what", you dedicated your life forever!
2. Society's "trap door" as I like to call it. Always an amazing answer when they prove to be wrong. Hence the "trap door". Generation, which I don't have a huge problem with their new explanation of generation of wicked, but it was their BREAD and BUTTER for a lifetime for my family. So many trap doors.
3. Rituals: The truth has become so ritualistic to me. I live where the territory is worked FIVE times a year but you are considered a freak if you say you don't want to pioneer because it is futile or worse that door-to-door is simply antiquated. And then there are the meetings.
4. Absolute required devotion: I don't understand how the Society can admit it's been wrong about so many scriptures but then demand that intelligent people can then sit down and do a verse by verse discussion of Isaiah and not wonder if they speculated and were wrong in the past, WHY NOT NOW??? I look around and wonder why don't others wonder?
5. Contradictions: Recently we had an article that there are NO modern day miracles. Then, you read about how the Nazis stormed an underground printing press and didn't see the literature in plain site. ARRGH! ISN'T THAT A MIRACLE? Does anyone else see that? So many similar things that are plain to me.
6. Martyrdom: I've researched that other fringe religions are just as persecuted. But they need that angle.
7. Boredom: At the Memorial the Brother announced a Special Talk in 2 weeks... The Theme: "Jesus, Who was he and why did he come to earth". WE JUST HEARD THAT, IT WAS THE MEMORIAL! But the say you are "spiritually weak" if you are bored at meetings.
8. Guilt and pressure: It literally is killing me but the Society just says: "Pray more".
9. Science: They quote scientists who support them and discredit the science community when it doesn't.
10. Careers: Can't believe they still do not want people to get educations after a Century.
11. Congregations: I have been just plain lied to, stolen from, propositioned though married, berated by elders who have ZERO love. Don't get it.
12. Judgmentalism: Although I agree with Bible morals and God's right to tell us right and wrong, I hate how judgemental we have become as an Organization.
Nice list off the top of my head eh?
That all being said, I still do believe in Jehovah and Christ Jesus pretty well as they are depicted by the Society. Hence my anguish. I also believe that I will see all my dead family previously mentioned IN PARADISE on EARTH.
NEAT DILEMA AIN'T IT? LOL
5TH OUT!
P.S. Thanks for the apology EvilForce..
Rabbit

Hi 5th
You've got your hands and head full...that's for sure! Take a deep cleansing breath...ahhhh....and just keep reading posts that pique your interest. That's what I did a year and a half ago, I simply watched and read. I was scared to death a demon was gonna jump out of my PC, but, alas...that was another lie.
I was baptised in 1972 and reg. pioneered for 3 years THRU 1975. That was a very interesting year for what did NOT happen. Regardless of whether the WT printed "The End of the World will be 1975" that's what everyone was told from the podium at Kingdom Halls to International Assemblies. Another lie you might want to look into.
The good thing here...is that you WILL "see the REST of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say. Everyone who has questions probably asked the Elders and others about their 'common sense' doubts -- and got shot down. I was basically told to "Shut Up!" about doubts, because...#1. "Are you doubting God's Organization ??" #2. "You will stumble others that way" and #3. "See #1."
I never got answers. I just got wide-open EYES telling me to "never question the Elders, the CO, the DO, the GB or the Org....never" it was "Dangerous thinking."
Well...it was actually just...thinking.
There is no easy way to do this. One thing I would caution you about is not mentioning your beliefs and doubts to friends & relatives, unless you know you can trust them. A lot of people here have been 'turned-in' to the Elders (out of love of course) by their own parents, children or even spouses. Figure out a plan that will work for you and your family. You'll hear of people walk boldly to the Elders and tell them what you think. Some, when ready to leave will write a letter of "Disassociation". A lot like me, will simply fade away...under the JWradar. We have family we know we could lose permanently if we get disfellowshiped (DF) or dissassociated (DA). You know the penalty.
My X wife -- a JW decided I was a 'spiritual danger' to her and we ended up with an unscriptural divorce, I later remarried a non-jw and I am shunned by 1/2 of my family, including our children. Isn't that Christ like love ? Btw, I am not DA/DF either.
So, Welcome ! Some people here you'll love, some will make you sick, some are real brains, but, everyone is REAL ! They will tell you what they think, they'll ask you hard questions and give you hard answers. That took me some getting used to, I was much more familiar with being recited to from a WT point of view, everyone was usually afraid to really give you THEIR personal opinion.
I see you have some of those already ! Good for you !
Rabbit
kls

Some people here you'll love, some will make you sick, some are real brains,
Wonder which one i am Forget i asked
5thGeneration

Thanks Rabbit.
Forgot 13: Black and White.
I finally told my Dad that I really now see a distinction between the Society and Jehovah. They are not one and the same.
He, having pioneered 27 yeard and P.O. for 20, said: "You're either one of Jehovah's Witnesses or you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses!".
Then he responded: "Do YOU think you are smarter than the Governing Body?".
I later heard my Parents upstairs and my Mom asked my Dad: "Does he have a mental problem or something?". Nice!
BTW, I'm stinking 34 with 2 beautiful daughters, living this guilt and actually have been drinking quite a bit to deal with it which is NOT GOOD. Still in good standing though! LOL
Fuel for the fire!
Big Dog

5th, welcome to the board, I hope you find what you are looking for and find some peace. As for believing in the WBTS's version of God and Jesus might I suggest that God and JC are a little cooler than the Org gives them credit for.
5thGeneration

Forgot to mention that I have friends who are ELDERS, (ELDERS!) and we sit around every once in a while drinking and laughing at what Society views are crazy to us. So I do have support from the inside. Weird I guess!
Thanks everyone.
P.S. If anyone wants to talk me out of believing the basics you will be wasting your time because I believe them. I still look up into the stars at night and marvel and pray. I still study the Society's Greatest Teacher book with my girls and it literally brings tears to my eyes! Unfortunately, I then read the next rediculous "Questions from Readers" that highlights the next set of rules. LOL
kls

"Does he have a mental problem or something?".

No mom and dad ,his mind is opening up to the wt , you really should try it.
5th i am not going to tell you how to live but please do not use alcohol as a tool to hide your hurt and feeling but research the wt and use your knowledge to help yourself in a mind opening way . Know what i mean
You will see the longer you are here the stronger you will become and you will learn so so much.
sandy

<div> 7. Boredom: At the Memorial the Brother announced a Special Talk in 2 weeks... The Theme: "Jesus, Who was he and why did he come to earth". WE JUST HEARD THAT, IT WAS THE MEMORIAL! But the say you are "spiritually weak" if you are bored at meetings.

Welcome to the board 5th. It sounds to me that you are on your way out the JW door. You might be uncomfortable with that though but eventually you'll know better.

All it takes is one domino to fall and all the rest follow. I'm currently researching JW history and doctrines and it is becoming clearer and clearer they do not have the "truth" And they are not God's modern day spokeman. But It sounds like you already believe that.

I wish you the best and hope you stick around here.</div>

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