Jim Penton

by Greenpalmtreestillmine 67 Replies latest jw friends

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  HappyDad

  Greenpalmtreesstillmine,

  I understand your feelings about this but in the spirit of love I have to disagree.

  GPT,

  I have no respect for men and women who claim to be Christians and who have the ability and education to defend their faith but who chose the comfortable path of preaching to the choir rather than to help their fallen brothers.

  I think we should not judge them for not posting here. I'm sure that if they did post here they would be faced with persons that may argue if they made certain untrue or unprovable statements about the Bible. They may have to face issues they are not willing to deal with, if they post here.

  There are some on this and other forums who are like rabid dogs and love argument and controversy just for the sake of it. They are full of anger and hate. What can you do with a rabid dog? No matter if you try to "feed" it or be nice to it, it will bite you. Franz, Johnson and Penton and some others do not need to be insulted or called out for some of the statements they made. The ones who start the "fight" have done nothing positive to refute WT teachings. All they spew is anger, hate and show their lack of real knowledge. Where are their writings? As one poster put it, they have done much as it is with their writings. JWD is a wonderful forum with a lot of good people, but there is a much larger audience out where their work is being done. That work is reaching thousands of people who are not nor want to be on any forum or the internet itself. Yes, it would be nice to hear from them from time to time, but consider their age and their schedule of activities. Being here just reading every post every day takes quite a bit of time. If I wasn't retired, I could never get all the posts read let alone respond to some of them. And I don't have the knowledge or education to write a book or do some of the research they have done. All I can do is thank them for helping to FREE me and many others and to say to them especially and to everyone else...................................... God Bless You, HappyDad
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  Narkissos

  Wondering to whom the above is more insulting, J. Penton & R. Franz or the "fallen brothers" aka "rabid dogs"?
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  frankiespeakin

  Nark,

  "Fallen brothers" who eventually turn into "rabid dogs",,seems to be the minds reasonable explanation for those who challenge the the bible's inspiration. What do you call terms that stop rational thought,, terms like "hater's of God",, "apostates",,the "bad people". These terms all designed to stop thinking and keep everything black and white.
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  AlanF

  Jim Penton is a far better Christian than most Christians who post here, and one of the finest human beings on the planet. He's not afraid of expounding on his opinions, but he's also not afraid of admitting that he has no good answers to some of the most fundamental philosophical problems of Christianity -- again something that sets him apart from most Christians on this board. He's also willing to discuss things intelligently and actually listen to criticisms and reason on them, and actually give good arguments in return. Not that he always comports himself properly -- he's a loving, perfectly normal man who wears his heart on his sleeve, which sometimes gets him in trouble.

  Penton owes nothing to anyone on this board in terms of spending time defending Christianity. He has much better things to do with his time, and so I find that it's the all-too-common Christian judgmentalism that's at the heart of calls to try to tell him what he ought to do.

  AlanF
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  SixofNine

  While I'm sure that I personally disagree with Jim Penton on most every "spiritual" level save for one, I must come to his defense. He is only a man, and goodness, a 72 year old man at that. The same sentiment, imo, goes for Ray Franz.

  Sabrina, that you seem to be (fairly) comfortable jostling with well researched atheist and agnostics is admirable, but surely you see that yours is not a common trait among most people who call themselves "christian"?
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  minimus

  THAT'S THE REASON SOME VERY GOOD PEOPLE STAY AWAY FROM THESE PLACES! ...Still judging!!
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  Mary

  I just feel that the so called "best" should be where they are most needed not where it is easiest to post. I understand very well the problems and hurts that can come to Christians posting here but that does not mean as Christians we should seek the easy road and only speak to those of like faith. Prominant exJW Christians should have enough courage and enough of God's spirit to post here. If not then they are fooling themselves. Let them walk on the water and help their brother if they claim to be Christians. I have no respect for men and women who claim to be Christians and who have the ability and education to defend their faith but who chose the comfortable path of preaching to the choir rather than to help their fallen brothers.

  Good Lord, who died and made you judge and jury over Jim Penton??!! If he doesn't want to post here, guess what? He doesn't have to!! This isn't Nazi Germany and it's not the WTS. You don't know what he does with his time and you've got some frigging nerve trying to tell him what he should do with it. Christ, with attitudes like this, no wonder he doesn't post here.........
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  Leolaia

  This forum is lightly moderated and flame wars are not uncommon (e.g. look for any thread with the word "gay" in the title). I personally don't find such discussions dignified and they can be quite emotionally draining. A person can spend a lot of time trying to intelligently respond to someone else's post to just have that person dismiss it with an insulting phrase.

  frankiespeakin....I don't think Jim is reluctant at all to "deal with" critical questions about the Bible; see his post, for example, here. I think his position is reasonable and instead challenges those who are quick to trash it to try to understand it and the beautiful message of love and faith that it contains. I think he is more interested in talking about how this message can motivate us to become better people than whether higher criticism proves that such-and-such story in the Old Testament is unhistorical.
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  Room 215

  Leolaia,

  Thanks for having reminded me of Jim's eloquently stated ``credo;" for me, it says it all.
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  frankiespeakin

  Leo,

  A person can spend a lot of time trying to intelligently respond to someone else's post to just have that person dismiss it with an insulting phrase.

  I agree everyone can express opinions,,and some who work very hard on a post must find it exasperating. I feel very grateful to those that do,,but my self I use this place as therapy and the light moderation where people may get insulting and we have to deal with it. I find it fasinating to watch the whole process,, and seeing how others come to the aid of the one wronged and the whole gambit of emotions people display in their post. This has been truley fasinating and healthy for all of us we are all chipping at each other ruff spots.

  frankiespeakin....I don't think Jim is reluctant at all to "deal with" critical questions about the Bible; see his post, for example, here. I think his position is reasonable and instead challenges those who are quick to trash it to try to understand it and the beautiful message of love and faith that it contains. I think he is more interested in talking about how this message can motivate us to become better people than whether higher criticism proves that such-and-such story in the Old Testament is unhistorical.

  Yes, I feel you may be right, I really don't know the man,,I was only guessing as to what might make it uncomfortable for him to post. The bibles message of a vengfull god does make it hard for fundamentalist types of beleiver's to post here (I don't think Jim is a Fundy BTW),,and we do send jehovah up the flag pole here quite abit. It is all a part of the healing process here,,such an enviroment in my opinion would not be favorable for Jim.