by LittleToe 163 Replies latest jw friends
I didn't realise we were talking about a real situation - so sorry if my speculative ponderings sound like I know what I'm talking about.
But anyway, while I agree with Blondie about the "power not sex" thing, it also works on another level. Supply on demand. Why have there been female prostitutes for centuries and very few male ones?
For most men, it is a novelty to become the sexual center of attention to a group of bum pinching, sexually frustrated drunk women. (it happened to me once)
First off I want to say I find sexual harassment of either sex to be distasteful.
It's interesting how when it happens to a man people tend to blow it off or minimize it (I'm not necessarily saying it was done in this instance but commenting in general). I suppose the view is that most men don't mind any type of sexual advance. The same thing seems to happen at times on the sexual abuse threads, when it is a preteen boy that is abused by an older woman the tendency is to view it as some type of rite of passage or conquest instead of what it actually is...abuse of an underage child. I think the only way it will change is when people start to view it not a man/woman thing but a person thing. Showing respect for another person and their boundries.
For the record though I have to say LT is dead sexy in that kilt
Oh, yeah, it's sexual harrassment on both sides. Doesn't matter if it is a woman or a man that is doing it. It used to be that if a man got fresh, a woman could slap him. Can't do that anymore because people will get arrested.
I seem to recall you being harrassed in your kilt at last year's apostafest in Dallas. I didn't stick around in the crowded hotel room long enough to see how you handled it.....
Robyn
Is it appropriate for a guy to ask if you are wearing any panties? I find it appropriate for my husband to ask me that but not appropriate for anyone else to ask me that male or female.
Are there any circumstances, for a stranger, where this would be appropriate? I can't think of any unless you're possibly buying sex from a prostitute or such. If that was the case I guess this would not be out of line.
How about if there were no discernible panty line? Would you be asking for it? No.
How about if he then went the extra step of trying to look up your skirt or using a camera to do so, or even lifting it? Wow, this is way wrong and goes the next level up from inappropriate. Sexual harrassment in my opinion.
What would be appropriate recourse, especially if they?d been repeatedly asked to desist? I would become highly agitated and might give the person a swift kick to the nuts I guess or press charges or call someone for help because I would start getting scared of this person.
Several years ago I was sexually harrassed at work. It was not pretty and it made work horrible. In the end it got so bad I went to the supervisor. This male work mate had cornered me in the storage room and made and did improper sexual advances to me. I was so shook up that I did go to my supervior and told him what was happening and what happened in the storage room. My supervior was just appalled and outraged. He called the guy into his private office and let him have it verbally and would have fired him on the spot if I wouldn't have said I didn't want that. I just wanted it to STOP! He really wanted to fire him and throw him out the door. The harasser was married with three kids and one income and I didn't want his kids to suffer for his actions. Everything worked out in the end but he did have it permanently entered in his personnel file with it hanging over his head that one more incident and he would be terminated.
(((((Ross))))) If this was a real situation, I'm terribly sorry. I've been sexually harassed, sometimes it offended me and other times it didn't. The difference was I knew the intent of the harasser. I've been sexually harassed by friends and coworkers that were just being funny or flirtatious. I've been sexually harassed by friend's boyfriends and other coworkers where it frightened me. It was obvious from their words, their tones, their actions that there was a goal other than gaining a laugh or to flirt. Their goal was to either gain power over me mentally or sexually. It is terrifying. Being a rape survivor, I feel I have a very keen intuition about a person's intent when they harass. I've never been off the mark so far. That being said, no matter the intent of the harasser, if they are asked to stop harassing (by the victim her/himself or a witness) then it MUST be stopped. If the behavior is not stopped, then this is crossing the line from sexual harassment to sexual assault. In my mind, it's pretty black and white. I know there are gray areas, but when the person says "stop" then there is no more gray, IMO.
I'm sorry you've experienced this. Sexual harassment and DEFINITELY sexual assault leaves wounds that are difficult to overcome. I hope you begin to heal.
Love,
Andi
Xena said: I suppose the view is that most men don't mind any type of sexual advance
looks like I've been rumbled!
If the male has requested the female not to do it then she shouldn't do it. There is a double standard though, a female doing this to a male is viewed as a laugh by many even by the female doing it, but the other way around brings disgust!
Misunderstandings need to be catered for though, it doesnt automatically qualify the female as a bad person if she displays this type of behaviour, she may have just momentarily crossed the boundries and will live to regret it, I think most of us males have at some stage met a female who has laughed her head off while tugging at our belts and pants in public places. If they see us as a laugh they think we have the same sense of humour as they do.
Brummie
Sherry:
Ross I am so sorry that your experience here in my beautiful part of the world brought on this conversation.
It brought it to the fore of my mind, but it's something I've been meaning to ask for a while.
You know, this is a situation I have been in before. Usually I have no qualms about setting someone in their place and have done so effectively.
Likewise.
Jeez, they pretty much all look the same!!
Ironic, isn't it?
Ballistic:
I didn't realise we were talking about a real situation.
How would that change anything?
I'm still trying to grapple with why there should be a difference, be it theoretical or actual. Can you elaborate for me?
Xena:
It's interesting how when it happens to a man people tend to blow it off or minimize it... (etc).
This is what I'm trying to grapple with.
Robyn:
It used to be that if a man got fresh, a woman could slap him.
So, should a man slap a woman in such a situation???
This is why I asked what would be appropriate recourse. I suspect that such a course of action would be frowned upon by onlookers, if a man did it. More double-standards?
I didn't stick around in the crowded hotel room long enough to see how you handled it.....
I politely, but firmly, asked them to desist and they did.
This is one reason that I say that it's been on my mind for a while.
SpecialK:
I guess folks forget that this is probably one reason a knife worn in the sock is still publically acceptable with this form of national dress. It puts a new slant on "right to bear arms", huh?
Besides, I needed something to open the haggis with...
Andi:
I know there are gray areas, but when the person says "stop" then there is no more gray, IMO.
I guess it's the grey areas that I want to explore. In the recent case (that folks seem intent on) it was painted black several times, but I really don't want to dwell on that. That's not truly the reason I started the thread.
So, should a man slap a woman in such a situation???
This is why I asked what would be appropriate recourse. I suspect that such a course of action would be frowned upon by onlookers, if a man did it. More double-standards?
As I said, people get arrested when the slapping starts. However, in my world, it's quite all right for a person (man or woman) to defend themselves.
(((((Ross))))) I'm sorry that this happened to you.
Robyn
How would that change anything?
I'm still trying to grapple with why there should be a difference, be it theoretical or actual. Can you elaborate for me?
I am merely stating that while I like to play Devil's advocate and jump head first into these disscusions, I might be spouting off inappropriatly if it is not a hypothetical situation.
