If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....

by Elsewhere 162 Replies latest jw friends

  • joannadandy

    Really enjoying the debate people. Keep it up smart ones so I can sit and read something good while I scratch.

    I am reading The Origin of Satan, right now by Elaine Pagels. (spelling?) I am only a couple chapters in, so I can't comment with any real authority, but I find some of her ideas really interesting - Like what is the importance of making Pilot seem like a sweetie pie, while the Jewish leaders are blood thirsty? Also putting the struggle in terms of a heavenly conflict that is still going on, makes it easier for new followers not to be disapointed because their leader is dead. I'm rambling--sorry, I didn't really plan out this post.

    I dunno, it's interesting stuff to me--anyone else read it?

    Also, Elsewhere I would seriously recommend you read The Marriage of Heaven and Hell by William Blake. Very thought provoking stuff, some of it echoes what you said in your opening post. There are a lot of poets and authors who wrote during the Romantic period that felt that Satan was infact a hero, not God--and likened him to a Promethus type character i.e. someone sympathetic to the plight of humans who was punished by the gods, or in Satans case the capital G, for helping humans to no longer be in the "dark" and totally under the control of (g)God(s).

    I find the whole debate facinating, and this debate on this forum is no different. Thanks to everyone who contributed--it's been fun reading!!

  • frankiespeakin


    When you really think about it as unbiasedly as possible, the Devil is definately much nicer than jehovah, killed far less people,,less egotistical,,and less concerned about being worshipped than jehovah, and that we glean from the book that promotes God and puts down the Devil. Go figure!

  • undercover

    Resurrecting this...

    On the question if the serpent was Satan or not:

    So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

    "Cursed are you above all the livestock
    and all the wild animals!
    You will crawl on your belly
    and you will eat dust
    all the days of your life.
    And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and hers;
    he will crush your head,
    and you will strike his heel."

    To the woman he said,

    "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
    with pain you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you."

    To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'

    "Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat of it
    all the days of your life.
    It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
    By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return."

    Now if Satan was the serpent why did God curse the serpent and not Satan? Why punish the snake if it was just being channeled by Satan? Why was Satan not punished? He punished Adam and Eve for being deceived, but not the perpetrator of the entire event.

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