What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned? (page 21)

LittleToe

See, now try as I might, when considering this I can't get around the NT doctrine of Predestination (which I've recently addressed in another thread).
I believe it has a direct bearing on this topic, especially if one is going to consider whether or not it is an alleghorical story or a historical one.

If we are to go down the route of taking it as an historical account then:

Did God set things in motion, unaware of the course Adam was going to take, and then had to respond to it?
Did He decide not to foreknow that this would happen?
Did He know it was going to happen, but let it anyway?
Did he Predestine it to happen?

Since there is such a rich platter of symbology offered up in the story, I come down rather heavily on the side of it being an alleghorical tale, designed to explain man's separation (or spiritual disconnection) from "God".

gumby

Well, it's sad that this discussion couldn't go on a bit further as it seems we were getting to some intresting points. It went 200 replies and died because we couldn't get along.......pretty much describes religion

I wanted to respond to schizm comment to me about me being biased towards him.

Just because one or more people do not agree with you schizm, doesn't mean they are biased against the person. That would be like me telling people my wife is a biggot, or biased because she likes different music than me and she thinks my music is silly. Is she biased, or does she just have different taste, likes, beliefs, feelings?

We all differ here in our beliefs, but it doesn't mean we are picking on each other or are biased against someone when we disagree on matters.If you would have said "why do your ideas" differ from mine", then I would have said " that's why we're discussing this."

Gumby

Schizm

Perhaps Alans point was that the scriptures does not say specifically the"time period" they were allowed to eat from it. Becuse god gave them permission to eat from EVERY tree....doesn't mean they had ALREADY begun eating from the Tree of Life.--Gumby

Oh, okay, now I get it: Black is white and white is black. Right on! Now I know the rules.

Anyway this part is your and Alans buisness.--Gumby

No, it isn't just something between Alan and I. Ask LT if it was wrong for him to have expressed his opinion about things that I've said in this thread. He considered it his job, don't you remember?

Schizm

Well, it's sad that this discussion couldn't go on a bit further as it seems we were getting to some intresting points. It went 200 replies and died because we couldn't get along.......pretty much describes religion

It died because of people that cannot be reasoned with. And there's nobody that can legitimately claim that I'm one of those.

p.s.> Personally, I think that Elsewhere's dog has stooped as far as a dog can stoop by humping Alan's leg. Plus, that was a terrible waste of semen. He should've been more particular about choosing who to make love to. Now the dog's reputation is shot, the same as his wad. He may as wll just be "put down" (euthanized) now, poor puppie. Maybe that's what happened to Alan's brain ... it got euthanized.

toreador

I think this is an interesting thread. It is something I have wondered about as well. I think it would have been nice if there is a God that he would have told us whether the stories in the bible were allegorical or not.

Tor

gumby

Toreador,

I think it would have been nice if there is a God that he would have told us whether the stories in the bible were allegorical or not.

If there was a god who would speak to me......."I don't need no stinking bible".

Yes it would be nice if our REAL dad would show his face or speak his voice......but he works in 'mysterious ways'. We are expected to take the words written down 2000 years ago that were copied from other texts....(supposedly) and die for it's teachings if need be. That's asking a bit to much from a god who cannot tell us himself.

Gumby

Schizm

Perhaps Alans point was that the scriptures does not say specifically the"time period" they were allowed to eat from it. Becuse god gave them permission to eat from EVERY tree....doesn't mean they had ALREADY begun eating from the Tree of Life.--Gumby

There was nothing at all unclear about what I said, and there was nothing at all unclear about what AlanF said in his reply. I had plainly said that the Bible tells us that Adam and Eve had permission to eat from the tree of life. AlanF said that the Bible doesn't say that. I said, yes it does ... at Genesis 2:16, 17. There it is shown that Adam had permission to eat from "every" tree of the garden, except one. "Every" tree would have to include the tree of life. So, did Adam have permission to eat from the tree of life or not? I said, yes. AlanF said, no. I demonstrated how the Bible upholds what I had said and proved that AlanF doesn't know what he's talking about--but he refuses to acknowledge that he was mistaken. This has nothing whatsoever to do with any "time period," as you suggest. The issue was simply whether or not Adam and Eve had permission to eat from the tree of life. That's a question that requires either a yes or no answer. Either they did have permission, or they didn't. The Bible shows that they did!

Once again, here's exactly what was said between myself and AlanF:

:All that we're told is that Adam and Eve themselves were allowed to do so .--Schizm
No, Genesis doesn't say that. You're jumping to a conclusion. --AlanF
According to Genesis 2:16, 17 Adam had permission to eat from "every" tree of the garden, except for ONE particular tree. So, how can you say that Genesis doesn't say that Adam had permission to eat from the tree of life?--Schizm

As anyone can see, there's nothing at all unclear or complicated about what was said by either one of us. It's a shame that AlanF refuses to acknowledge that he was wrong by what he claimed. And, there is absolutely no question at all that he was wrong.

Schizm

Golf

Gumby, there should be a picture of a dog chasing his tail about this post, instead of one humping someone's leg. If only an 1/16 of positive energy exuded from this post, I would give it thumbs up.

Do you plan to ask an other question in the future with the word 'exactly?'

Guest 77

Schizm

If only an 1/16 of positive energy exuded from this post, I would give it thumbs up.--Golf

Funny though how you keep being drawn back to this thread, isn't it. What is it that brings you back, Golfie? The humpy little dog? It doesn't appear that you have any intentions of making a worthwhile contribution. What really is your reason for dropping by again, Golfie? Do you have anything besides ridicule to offer, Golfie? I remember you from the old H20 days, Golfie. You haven't changed, not even a smidgin. Correction: Yes you have changed ... you've aged *physically* since then. It's nice to see you still alive, Golfie.

LittleToe

Gumby:
God is mute?
That's a new one on me...

As for your new friend, who seems oblivious to your attempts to succor him, I really would give up...
...oops, sorry, I forgot, I have!
He doesn't seem to have come to appreciate (through the years) that if someone asks them to rephrase something, or asks them a question, it's often because they haven't explained themselves as well as they thought.

He has the spirit of Herk, and I suspect that he will likely throw his tools out of the sandpit sometimes soon.

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

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