McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing 272 Replies latest jw friends

  • LDH
    LDH

    Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, and honestly I didn't read much past the first two pages, which pretty quickly degenerated into semantics, IMHO.

    As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line issue in the USA for whether or not to allow the death penalty to stand comes down to one issue:
    MONEY.

    It is a limited resource. Would I rather spend the $50,000 a year to house an inmate who is sentenced to life in prison (not to say anything of his end of life geriatric care)or take that same $50,000 (it's all tax money folks) and invest it in a program like the Boys and Girls Club?

    As a nation we cannot and must not continue to house and pay for prisoners by sentencing them to life in prison. (You and I are paying for it folks...) We need to take our money and invest it where it matters--children. If that means hardened criminals have to die, so be it.

    In California we have a "three strikes" law. The third felony you commit sentences you to prison for LIFE with no possibility of parole. GREAT. so now we've got a bunch of 20 year old thugs, white trash and cholos going to prison for LIFE. And guess what, we get to pay for it!!

    How about 10, 20, DEATH?

    Since we've got these freaking bleeding heart liberals who say "Oh no, we musn't make the prisoner work, that would be slavery!" BULL SHIT.

    I say, give em three choices.

    1) Lifetime enrollment in the Military, any branch. (teach these a**holes some discipline)

    2) Full time supervised work for society. (Supervise em and let them build roads, houses for the poor, 60 hours as week like all of the other hard working Americans etc etc)

    3) DEATH.

    Let's not forget, these people had a CHOICE about their criminal enterprise--their victims did NOT.

    Lisa,
    Not in the mood to hear about criminal's rights class

  • Cowboy
    Cowboy

    Am I happy that McVeigh is dead? No,it brings me no joy.But it is some relief that another chapter in this ordeal is closed.I do believe justice was done.His death was not a murder-it was a punishment befitting his crime.I agree with many of your posts,especially Amazed's-I feel much the same on the subject,but have so little typing skill it would take me half a day to write it.My biggest hope is that some other nut doesn't feel the need to avenge his death on more innocent people.May we never forget.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Lots of us have had something to say about this, here's whats being said in Europe according to www.cnn.com


    LONDON, England -- Europeans condemned the U.S. execution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh as barbaric and blood-thirsty.

    The criticism came on the eve of U.S. President George W. Bush's first official visit to the continent.

    The president of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly condemned Monday's execution as "sad, pathetic and wrong."

    Lord Russel-Johnston said the execution gave McVeigh the notoriety he sought and called on the United States to reconsider the use of the death penalty.

    "Timothy McVeigh was a cold-blooded murderer. He will not be missed. But the way he died was sad, pathetic and wrong," said Russel-Johnston in a statement.

    • Europeans condemn execution:

    "It demonstrated the futility of capital punishment to act as a deterrent, giving him the notoriety he sought in committing this horrendous crime.

    "It is high time the United States rethought its attitude to the death penalty and aligned its position with the great majority of the free and democratic world."

    The London-based human rights group Amnesty International said the execution was a triumph of vengeance over justice.

    In Italy, where Pope John Paul II had joined with human rights groups in appealing in vain for Bush to spare McVeigh's life, there were protests outside the U.S. embassy.

    A Paris-based group opposed to the death penalty described McVeigh's execution as "useless and ridiculous."

    The execution was also heavily criticised in Spain, Germany and Portugal.

    In a statement, Amnesty said the execution was a failure of human rights leadership in the highest levels of government in the U.S.

    "By executing the first federal death row prisoner in nearly four decades, the U.S. has allowed vengeance to triumph over justice and distanced itself yet further from the aspirations of the international community," the statement said.

    McVeigh was killed by lethal injection for the deaths of 168 people when he bombed a government office building in Oklahoma City in 1995.

    Amnesty said many of the 152 state executions that occurred during Bush's governorship of Texas were in breach of international standards, such that some European media have dubbed him a "serial executioner."

    "By refusing to step in and impose a moratorium on federal executions, he has further damaged his country's reputation," the Amnesty statement said.

    The head of a France-based group fighting the death penalty around the world called the execution "useless and ridiculous" and predicted it would spur debate about ending capital punishment in the U.S.

    "I don't think the execution of Timothy McVeigh will change the problems of America," said Michel Taube, president of Together Against the Death Penalty.

    "The question was: does the execution avoid a new Timothy McVeigh .... Unfortunately, the answer is no," Taube told the Associated Press.

    Taube's group is organising the first worldwide congress against the death penalty June 21-23 in Strasbourg, expected to feature a call for a moratorium on capital punishment to be made from the chambers of the European Parliament.

    For Taube, McVeigh's execution shows that the death penalty "is absurd and useless and ridiculous ...."

    "When a man kills, and especially when he kills 170 people, there is no equivalent. It serves no one for the state and the criminal to outbid each other over death."

    Sentiment against the death penalty is strong in France, which abolished capital punishment in 1981.

    The last person executed in the European Union was killed by guillotine in France in 1977.

    The McVeigh case presented an opportunity for the U.S. government to cease their support of a policy "that allows the murderer to set society's moral tone by imitating what it seeks to condemn," said Amnesty.

    "Instead, the U.S. government has put its official stamp of approval on this policy; killing, it says, is an appropriate response to killing."

    Pepe Mejia, spokesman for a Spanish group planning protests against Bush's stop in Madrid, told Reuters: "This (the death penalty) doesn't solve anything. The politics aren't based on justice."

    In Berlin, the German government released a statement saying it "remains opposed to the death penalty, including as far as the execution of Oklahoma bomber Timothy McVeigh is concerned."

    But it added: "This does not imply any kind of sympathy with the perpetrators of this awful crime."

    Antonio Maria Pereira, president of the Portuguese human rights group Law and Justice said: "The death penalty is a barbarism inappropriate to our times."

    America's use of capital punishment puts it ethically at odds with its European allies, who have all banned it.

    Many Europeans are puzzled that a nation parading itself as a model of democracy and human rights continues to carry out death sentences.

    "The death penalty is a barbarism inappropriate to our times," Antonio Maria Pereira, president of the Portuguese human rights group Law and Justice, told Reuters.

    Sergio D'Elia, secretary of a protest group that demonstrated outside the U.S. embassy in Rome, said: "McVeigh committed a horrible crime. What he did or why he did it is not being discussed -- what is being discussed is the death sentence."

    "Bush has built his race to the White House on a road paved with those have been put to death," she added.

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    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line issue in the USA for whether or not to allow the death penalty to stand comes down to one issue:
    MONEY.

    Better eliminate the death penalty in that case. It cost more money to execute McVeigh than it would have taken to house him for life.

  • beroea
    beroea

    To kill is wrong no matter what

    beroea

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Silly ol' Englishman, don't you know that none of those opinions matter? Those were Europeans talking, and what do they know? Why, we here are Americans! Not some commie, pinko Europeans that needed our help in WWII or else the whole world would have been lost! What do those loser, liberal Europeans know about anything? We're sick of those ungrateful whiners.

    Seeker, who has heard too much jingoism in recent days...

  • LDH
    LDH

    Seeker,

    Then we should SPEED UP the death penalty process to save money! How about, say, one month after your third felony conviction we GAS YOUR ASS?!?!?

    The way I figure it, you have at least one whole month more to say goodbye to your family, which is a lot more than your victim had!

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Now then, Seeker,

    Dont forget that WW2 started in 1939, not 1941.

    Also remember that the only time the US was attacked was at Pearl Harbour, and the movie lasted longer than the real thing!

    Plus, this "we're the heroes saving your butts" is garbage, you ain't and you didn't, you've been watching too many war films made in Hollywood.

    And yes, we are free to comment on the USA and say exactly what we like, thats why we are so free.

    I still love Americans, OK so they're god-awful polluters and the justice system belongs in the middle ages, but the people are great.

    Don't be so sensitive Mr Seeker, I'm entitled to my opinion too.

    Englishman.

    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

  • reagan_oconnor
    reagan_oconnor

    In the Cleveland Plain Dealer back in April, a woman wrote a letter to the editor explaining what she felt was the appropriate punishment for Timothy McVeigh. Here's the general list she provided, with my apologies for specifics -- it is no longer archived on the PD Web site.

    1. Spend the rest of his life in an 8x8 cell, no human contact whatsoever.

    2. Pictures of his victims before and after the bombing would be taped to the walls of his cell so that he can contemplate them for the rest of his long life.

    2. His name would be erased from the public consciousness. Not even a brief mention of him in the history books, or the "message" that he attempted to convey through his actions. The media would never again mention his name.

    I thought this was very interesting... my personal opinion is that he should have been executed by public hanging, after which the victims and their families get to pelt the unhooded body with rocks as it hangs for a full week. But, I guess we're in "civilized society" and I'll have to settle for a needle in his arm as he falls asleep. Wonder if the warden had to sing a lullaby...

    God believes in justice, and so do I. I think we should be using the death penalty more than we are. It shouldn't be used solely as a deterrent, but guess what -- if your ass stands a chance of ending up in the electric chair or on the death bed, maybe you'll think twice about blowing away that liquor store owner for $150.

    God Bless America.

    "I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I personally think the death penalty is a waste of time and effort. If I ran the world, murderers would have to work hard every day the rest of their life and any profits from their efforts would go to the victim's family.

    Restitution I think is more valuable than revenge.

    hugs

    Joel

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