why the watchtower is so short of money

by pepperheart 89 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Finkelstein

    The WTS/JWS's downsizing is in effect from sales of its branches, to sales of many Kingdom Halls. etc.

    Lets just say the WTS's financial structure is evolving and changing to a structure of sustainability.

    The GB members know who pays for their living existence and traveling air flights around the world.

  • no-zombie

    Oh come on guys, I just cant get it. The age demographics of the Brotherhood is everything. Even whole nations die out because this principle. That's why industrialized nations have immigration, to bolster the low local birth rate that most are now in, just to guarantee the replacement of the older tax payers. So just start reading some books on macro economics and history, in stead of depending on the anecdotal stories of "i know a brother, who knows a brother, who knows a Governing Body member". It only the physical evidence and the numbers we have that is real.


    Kingdom Halls are being sold in numbers never heard of before (with the money going the US)

    Assembly Halls are being sold in numbers never done before ... ever (with the money again going the the US)

    Congregations merged are being in numbers never done before ... ever.

    There is effectively NO new building works.

    Most western nations had real falls in Publisher numbers (meaning no young people to replace the old)

    The total cut pack in the production of physically printed items.

    The bleeding of money through the courts (and the bad press).

    And this whole switch to digital more wasn't for free, must of cost millions to setup and its maintenance and bandwidth is not for free either.

    These are FACTS.

    Only on Bizzaro World, can anyone say that these are the hallmarks of a thriving company with a future.

  • LV101

    Great points re/"the physical evidence and the numbers" however, problem is we don't have the critical financial numbers -- that's not good! I agree they're making radical changes and I hope it continues. If, only, financial documents were available for analysis - sure make it easier to get our hopes up.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I am reading this and it is something that we cannot even agree on whether they short of money or not, let alone why they would be short (or not).

    Watchtower was clearly a giant publishing company that made humongous best-sellers that nobody ever really heard of. They sold the books and magazines and whatnot to Joe Publisher. In the past, Joe Publisher also sold the stuff to the public. That was Watchtower's main source of money for decades upon decades.

    Members did not really contribute much money beyond buying the books. Oh, they kept the lights on at the local Kingdom Hall and put their modest contribution in at the assemblies and conventions enough for Watchtower to make a profit there. But the real money was in literature. Your average member gave them TIME, not MONEY. That is the model that members were used to.

    The money train for literature ended quickly. When members were to donate and not buy the literature, they felt they were giving TIME, not so much MONEY. "Jehovah knows I don't have boatloads of money." And real growth of the organization has been stagnant with mostly kids of members joining. The old folks that are still around still think "TIME, not MONEY." Meanwhile, younger lifelong members are seeing less income from not going to college, they are seeing Watchtower demand too much and they are just not giving it.

    Sure, they drop their money in the box. But what they used to drop in the box was a modest amount at the Hall, and a modest amount at the Circuit Assembly, and a modest amount at the Convention. Now, they see Watchtower saying various things about needing so much money and they take money they would have dropped in one box and drop it in the other. When the local congregation needs to pay bills, they drop it in there. But they just don't have more/more/more for the assemblies and conventions. And they figure Watchtower is getting it anyway from the Kingdom Hall, so they don't drop it in.

    Selling properties is a crisis management solution, not a viable way to get out of trouble.

  • _Morpheus

    What sort of fantasy world monoply economics do some of you people use for your assumptions?

    Let me get this strait.... the wt is collapsing and had to sell brooklyn to cover only a years worth of operating expenses... but somehow selling a few pidley local halls has been so profitable it also kept them going? Ifthey sold every kh in the usa it wouldnt amount to half of brooklyn.

    Your (yes im purposely pissing off grammar nazis) the lot of you delusional and not being consistant with your own logic. If selling brooklyn for BILLIONS isnt enough for more than a year than a few local halls for mere 10’s (100’s at most) of thousands is almost not worth the time to discuss. Its a goddamn rounding error in slims delusional wt budget.

    And where do you people come up with these imaginary ‘huge cash settlements’? Without cheating and using a search, how many lawsuits can name that the wt lost... answer zero. How many can you name that they settled...? No cheating....

    i bet you got one: candace conti. There have been a few others but a very few. Given what conti was awarded by a jury there have been reasonable guesses on the settlement and its nowhere near what any of you think. The wt isnt being hammered with abuse cases.

    Try to step back from your wt hate or even your anti wt bias and be logical. They are still growing. Thats the opposite of collapse. Televangelists crying for donations while living a life of luxury isnt new or unuque to the wt. they arent selling assets to cover operating expense since the assets they are selling arnt even close to what you claim their operating expenses are.

    The old printing model wasnt working in an increasingly digital world. They are trying to remake themselves and as long as they have people they have money. We will still be arguing this ten years from now. Slim still wont admit he was wrong.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    "The old printing model wasnt working in an increasingly digital world. They are trying to remake themselves and as long as they have people they have money. We will still be arguing this ten years from now. Slim still wont admit he was wrong. "

    The Borg had to morph from a printing company, to a "digital one". It had to. The advent of the internet over the last 2 decades has nearly put an end to the printing era. The Borg is trying to adjust to the digital era. It has no more need to sustain these massive printing complexes, waste of space and cuts back on maintenance.

    It is now clearly in the "digital" era. Just to be a "Captain Obvious" here, LOL.

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Sears Roebuck tried to rename/rebrand itself and we all know where they're headed. Likewise with Watchtower! Both Sears Roebuck and Watchtower will soon be competing with each other in who can push-up the most daisys! :-) :-)


  • slimboyfat

    Exactly so, and well put OTWO.

    Watchtower has been using its members as salesmen for decades and meanwhile boasting that they take no collections or tithes at the KH. It’s hard to turn around the culture of 100 plus years that says, give us your time rather than your money.

    Now their publishing empire has collapsed and they need money desperately, Watchtower’s problem is that they have created a membership that has neither the inclination nor the actual means to contribute large amounts to the organisation.

  • Finkelstein

    Maybe people who are JWS are less willing to support a lying commercialized fraud the WTS devised as preaching the Gospel, with their time and money ?

    Lets face it the WTS influenced people to not save for retirement because the end was near, now the base age of these JWS are in retirement age they cant afford to give what little they have.

    Call it short sighted stupidity on behalf of the WTS and its leaders.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro


    Where are you getting your figures? I pulled the SDA annual report and they took in 3.4b (I'll just US dollars since that's what they reported). They have 20m members who tithe. Dividing that gets to $170 not 200-300. Using that number as an average JW contribution gets you to 1.35ish billion NOT 2b. But, I would argue that 1.3b number is what they wish they were getting from contributions. You cite the UK contributions since they have to disclose that. But you are trying to use contributions from one of the weathliest countries with a large JW presence and say that's the worldwide average. That doesn't make ANY sense! 2b annual income is not in any way a "reasonable estimate". If you want to use something, maybe half of the UK contributions is a reasonable worldwide average. Mayb 2/3rds? No clue but I know using the UK contributions is not a good estimate.

    This is what drives me nuts about your collapse discussions. You try to make economic arguements without any sound economic basis. It's like the WT arguing against science!

    We know the WT doesn't have a tithing system and their main source of income in the past was selling books and mags to JWs who in turn tried to recoup some of that money by selling to the public. Obviously, that's put a major dent in the income coming in. We know they are selling assets and downsizing. Even on the local level with the KHs. That's not a sign of an organization that is in rapid expansion mode. No one is saying that can't collapse nor is anyone here saying that they are doing great. But, you take such leaps in logic that now they are collapsing. No, last year they grew. Not by much, but growth is not collapse. Will they die one day? Sure, everything does. Is it by the end of the year? I'll wage my life savings the answer is no.

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