by pepperheart 89 Replies latest watchtower bible
The $200 million figure in the yearbook is only for travelling overseers, missionaries and special pioneers. The wording is very clear.
again, your putting a LOT of trust and belief in people not worthy of such. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, they announce a pretend deficit at every CA. There is no legal obligation for them to tell the truth in a yearbook as to their expenditures.
Your living in a dreamworld, neo.
It is very easy to see how Watchtower spends in the region of $2 billion a year
Whatever drugs your on Slim please stop and perhaps take some lessens in Math
no zombie - I think many appreciate SBF's perspective as well as others. Slim handles it diplomatically -- good to see on here. No one has facts or evidence re/the cult's financial status, unfortunately, but it's all speculative. Certainly be nice if some mole revealed evidence but no professional CPA firm(s) is going to cut their own throat. I don't believe anything from the mouth of a GB member -- not a good track record to go on!
The WT's publishing info was posted years ago -- probably on the old ex-JW board(s), H20 or another one. Hopefully, online. There were some really brilliant posters - one who had contact with a GB member and I'll try to think of his name but recall he posted on this board at one time. The info revealed it was one, huge, conglomerate of a publishing empire and quite shocking -- for decades! The amount of paper/ink was mammoth and indicated they were the largest other than the government which was #1! I'm sure the stats are somewhere -- would be great to have the info again. I had no idea the literature was sold at a discount. No one ever told me I was in the mag/sales business and could potentially turn a profit! I gave the literature away but once the individuals read it they were hooked - I couldn't believe they would actually ask for and wait to receive! After I stopped any JW activity (short lived journey/thankfully, but brain-washed re/having read the magazines for quite a while/unfortunately!) I referred them to a JW. Hope they were able to sell and profit!
By the way, my numerical estimates earlier are almost certainly grossly exaggerated *....but even being unreasonably generous doesn't even get you 1/3 of the way to "$2 billion per year".
* It certainly doesn't cost anywhere near $20,000 per Bethelite per year to maintain Bethelites in say Nigeria or Mexico or India, etc.
We can’t know the details for sure, but I think many of your figures are gross underestimates. For example:
Although some bethelites are abandoned in middle age, there are a considerable number of very elderly bethelites whose health care costs are probably extremely expensive in the last few months or years of their life. All the GB and their wives and branch committees and so on when they suffer from cancer, stroke, heart failure and everything else.
Maintining, heating and air conditioning such huge fascitlies in dozens of branches is likely to be a huge cost. Maintaining property is a huge expense.
And I think we may tend to underestimate the amount that Watchtower is spending in legal fees and compensation payouts already. Worldwide this alone may amount to tens of millions annually.
Plus travel costs for the GB and their entourage must be a considerable expense. And all the endless gstherings of COs, elders, branch members, technical staff, lawyers and goodness knows what else.
And paper is more expensive and they still need to print WT study magazines and a few other essential items.
And there are probably lots of other costs we don’t even imagine.
The other crucial point I make is that the idea that a religious organisation of this size and spread incurs costs in the region of $2 billion dollars is entirely plausible when you compare Watchtower with the Seventh Day Adventists. In fact they spend more than $2 billion dollars annually despite the fact that their membership is much more weighted toward third world countries than JWs.
Sir82 what sort of estimate would you put on the cost of heating, air conditioning, and structural maintenance of 80 branches and many other fascilities worldwide?
How much does it cost to care for very elderly bethelites that are not abandoned in old age? It’s not difficult to imagine that tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent treating Ted Jaracz’s heart disease for example. And all the wives, and branch members and so on, who cannot easily be abandoned. Health care must be a huge cost.
How much does it cost to employ and in some cases train (Judag Ben Schroeder) lawyers and other professionals?
And how much does it cost to produce their videos and websites and apps and all their digital output?
And how much is paid out in compensation of various sorts.
And let’s be blunt, how much is simply wasted or sponged off in various crony arrangements with suppliers and consultants and that we will never hear about but inevitably attach themselves to an organisation that is as huge and cycles as much cash as Watchtower does.
I have no idea how to even begin to estimate these and other costs. But added to your $600 million for personnel, it certainly adds up. If it doesn’t reach $2 billion it still puts the $1 billion from the sale of Brooklyn properties into perspective.
there are a considerable number of very elderly bethelites whose health care costs are
probably extremely expensive in the last few months or years of their life. All the GB and
their wives and branch committees and so on when they suffer from cancer, stroke, heart
failure and everything else.
Let's say there are 1000 of these horrifically ill Bethelites (5% of worldwide Bethelite population, another gross exaggeration). Say their medical expenses run $100,000 per year. That's $100 million.
Maintaining, heating and air conditioning such huge fascitlies in dozens of branches is
likely to be a huge cost. Maintaining property is a huge expense.
I surmised $2000 per year per Bethelite. For a branch facility housing say 100 Bethelites, that's $200,000 per year. Think of a 50 or 60 unit apartment complex - is maintenance / HVAC going to run $200,000 per year, when 90% of the maintenance is done "for free" by volunteers?
And I think we may tend to underestimate the amount that Watchtower is spending in legal fees
and compensation payouts already. Worldwide this alone may amount to tens of millions annually.
OK, let's exaggerate again and say $100 million.
Plus travel costs for the GB and their entourage must be a considerable expense. And all the
endless gatherings of COs, elders, branch members, technical staff, lawyers and goodness
knows what else.
There's maybe 100 highest of the high ranking bigshots who travel at WTS expense, throw in wives that's 200. Let's exaggerate extraordinarily again and say they spend $50,000 per year per person on travel. That's $100 million.
And paper is more expensive and they still need to print WT study magazines and a few
other essential items
What the hey, let's wildly speculate and say they spend $100 million per year on paper & ink.
And there are probably lots of other costs we don’t even imagine.
Sure, OK, let's put another $100 million in "petty cash".
So, wildly overestimating and exaggerating and speculating on all kinds of stuff, I'm struggling to come close to half of the "$2 billion per year" number.
Look, I'm sure they spend hundreds of millions - but it's an extraordinary exaggeration to say their expenses are a minimum of $2 billion per year.
You really can't compare the operations of SDA to the WT especially when it comes to spending. I just pulled their annual report (the detail is impressive) for the SDA. They collect over 3b in tithes alone! They operate hospitals (180 globally), nursing homes (121), clinics (441), orphanages (21) and schools (both university and primary education - I didn't see the grand total but its hundreds). They also have TV stations and radio stations and a 700m a year food sales operation!
What exactly does the WT operate? They have printing facilities (a lot less than they used to) which I agree are costly to run. Branch operations have been consolidated. Oh, oh, JW broadcasting (lol). But they don't do ANYTHING like what the SDA's do! How can you possibly compare the 2 entities when it comes to expenditures?
Part of the consolidations is because buildings are expensive to maintain. Selling them off not only liquidates the asset if they need cash but more importantly reduces their annual spend going forward.
Travel costs? LOL - what line of work are you in? My company has 5b (US) in revenue each year. Our operating expenses were around 700m (US) not including the cost of good sold. Granted, we are not a printer. But, we do pay our employees and by the way actually pay taxes unlike the freeloading religious entities. Yet you expect us to buy that the WT is spending over 2b a year with NO salary expenses other than a dorm room and board? The 200m figure sounds about right for their expenses for those in the Special Order (CO/Missionaries/Bethel). I'll even give you another 200m for upkeep of the physical plant, electricity and materials. Hell, I'll even give you an additional 200m (which is a lot of money by the way) or stuff I'm not thinking about. So, 600m?
If they are spending 2b per year, someone is flat out stealing the money. Even they can't generate that kind of waste.
Of course, if they were like the SDAs and actually gave a detailed accounting of their expenses, we'd know exactly what their financial condition is. Since they don't, then we can speculate to our hearts content!
You are correct that SDAs spend money on all sorts of things JWs don’t spend money on such as schools and hospitals.
On the other hand the vast majority of SDA membership and institutions are in third world countries.
Plus a church can only spend what it receives. The SDA church receives on average $178 from each of its members. (20 million members)
Indications from the paperwork in the UK and Australia are that JWs in those countries contribute in the region of £200 to £300 per year. If we assume that JWs on average contribute £200 a year that comes to £1.6 billion which must be pretty close to $2 billion dollars.
And since $2 billion is a reasonable ballpark estimate of Watchtower income it must also be reasonable estimate of their expenditure, or worse, since “more money is going out than coming in”.
Interesting thread.
I don't know how many here truly believe and take youtube videos seriously. Personally I take them with a grain of salt. But there was a recent video, released just within the last few days. It was the Telltale youtube channel. He did a really nice analogy of the "court settlements" the Borg is paying out, from the child-abuse cases.
