The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat 327 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Ruby456

    a tight focus on theological explanations obscures material reasons and conceals how individuals used their ingenuity and claims to inspiration to meet historical contingencies. for myself this is the best part as it means that humans have to call on non human, even super human resources.

    slim you have not once mentioned what it is was like on the ground when changes may have been made and how even God and his theology may have met a wall and which may have represented a learning curve for him. Obviously this happened when he met the figure of satan, Adam and Eve, events like the destructions of his temple, during the war years in our own day, the list can go on and on.

  • ThomasCovenant

    All very interesting.

    However, I suppose it may all come down to the Witness elder's interrogation question when they're deciding whether to disfellowship you.

    Do you, SlimBoyFat, believe that Sam, Geoff, Mark, Gerrit, Anthony, Mark and Dave are God's/Yahweh's/Jehovah's

    sole appointed channel of communication on this planet?

    If you do, then it doesn't really matter what God's 'name' is. Surely. Salvation will only come for you by being part of the religious organization which those men lead.

    Standing at the pearly gates saying

    SBF---'But Big J, I was a champion for your real name. Why aren't I going into Paradise?'

    Yahweh/Jehovah------------''Because I was only using one organization. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise you had to identify that organization and serve me as part of it. The rest was bollocks. I just wanted obedience.''

  • TheWonderofYou

    sole appointed channel of communication on this planet?

    JW having a "tunnel vision"? JW mostly get from a bible reading by tunnelling it through the magnifiying glass of the organisation. Isnt this magnificiant, and dont the results confirm the tunnel vision as a tool from god?

    They alone have a loving WW brotherhood, they alone never take up a weapon, they never blessed a weapon, they alone never lie, they alone preach the kingdom, they alone dont give up in being VIGILANT like the virgins awaiting the bridgeroom. This is the result of consequent tunneling each behaviour.

    This even to such an extent that the GB falsly erroneously rushed forward in the thrilling expectations about 1975 like all vigilant virigns. But we should not only pardon such a feverishly behaviour of a vigilant virgin as a christian normality but even expect it to happen so close to the end inmidst of the only true religion who is led by faulty old men having a tunnel vision and compare themselves to be virgins.

  • Phoebe

    When I read this:

    Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?

    I started having doubts about my doubts. This thread is long, complicated and you are all so clever but no one else spread's God's name like the witnesses, do they?

    If I wasn't confused enough as it is. Have I made a mistake leaving?

    I want to do the right thing and everything points to the JWs as not being God's people except the above. But when one of you said God has always put up with people doing things he disproves of...I started to worry.

    To be truthful I didn't sleep last night for worrying about it. I got up at 3.a.m to look for a YouTube video by Spike R to give me some clarity, because he always makes sense to me ad I find his voice very calming.

    Pheebs is much confused today :(

  • Ruby456

    phoebe I am an atheist/agnostic so pls don't take me as pointing towards God's people anywhere in any period of time. like you I am also trying to discover what it is about us that creates such elaborate beliefs for ourselves.

  • wizzstick

    Pheebs is much confused today :(

    Please don't be. It is quite simple.

    In the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) God's name is יהוה

    It occurs many times in the OT. But no one knows how to accurately pronounce it today. Which is odd given that the OT claims יהוה to be God's personal name. You would have thought that God's name would be the one word the entire planet would have access to!

    Jehovah is an attempt to pronounce that name, but as many have pointed out it is not correct. This name was created by a Catholic monk around the 13th century. The WT has spent decades teaching something that is not accurate.

    In the New Testament there are quotes from the OT where יהוה‎ would have occurred in the original OT text. There is some debate over whether the Jews would have said the name out loud or not.

    But the WT has clearly stepped over stepped the mark by adding Jehovah to various verses of the NT where there is no evidence it was ever there. This means they have altered the Bible to fit their beliefs.

    In summary:

    • יהוה is the name of God in the OT
    • No one knows how to pronounce it accurately
    • The WT has spent countless billions of hours preaching a name created by a Catholic monk
    • The WT has added Jehovah to verses of the NT

    Hopefully this has helped.

  • wizzstick

    They alone have a loving WW brotherhood

    Not if you try to leave. Don't expect to continue to have a loving WW brotherhood after that.

    And if you go around other religious groups and show an interest you will soon find loving WW brotherhood there as well.

    they alone never take up a weapon

    If you mean wouldn't fight for their country, then that is not true. The Christadelphians, amongst others, do not link.

    War is not nice. But sometimes it is necessary. If people hadn't fought back against the Nazis then you would likely be living in a concentration camp right now, if not dead.

    they never blessed a weapon

    There are plenty of religious leaders who have never blessed a gun. Does that make them true men of God?

    they alone never lie

    Utter rubbish. From misquoting sources to the ARC, they have been caught out time and time again.

    they alone preach the kingdom

    No! They preach their interpretation of the Kingdom, which starts on a made up date (1914) which they adopted from someone of another faith!

    they alone dont give up in being VIGILANT like the virgins awaiting the bridgeroom.

    All Christian groups beleive they (and often they alone) are being vigilant.

    You really need to read more critical information if you are ever to learn what reality looks like,

  • TheWonderofYou

    this group of Christians to champion his name

    In the whole hebrew spricptures the name stands for a person. So it doesn't turn about "to champion the pronuncation of the name" but about to champion Gods person. "Let your name be santified" could be spoken then also "You shall be sanctified."

    It is the beginning of Jesus prayer, in which besides the kingdom, the will and on the first place the person of god should be the supreme value in the life of a christian.

    So it is not by the usage or pronuncation of the tetragram that one can follow Christ but by giving the person of god the supreme place and thus honouring him.

    The hebrew Tetragram YHWH itself cannot be the item of santification today because of another reason. The correct pronunciation of the tetragram in hebrew got lost and further it was not used at all in the New testamtent even in citations of the old testament.

    "God's name is holy in itself; But we ask in this Praise that He will also be holy with us " what we say and by what we do. Marin Luther

    The treasure of usage of the name of God in the hebrew bible is that the name indicated God's presence (not to mix up with the invisible presence of Jesus since 1914) meaning that his "being here" or presence how it was experienced by men.

    We ask God to sanctify His name. With this we ask for his presence, which his name promises. Through the book Ezechiel now we know what it means when God sanctifies his name. There we read that he will gather his people, clean it, and gives it a new heart and a new spirit. This all we ask for when praying "Let your name be santified."

    ‘I will certainly sanctify my great name which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes. .. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit inside you. I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a heart of flesh.

    Ezechiel 36,23 + 26 NW

    Again in the text you see that santification doesnt turn around the knowledge of pronuncation but turn around receiving a good spirit, a "spiritual discipline". Praying "Let your name be santified" means living so as one would hope for the presence of god.

    "So even we (the people of god) can become a place in the world where the glory of God is visible for all."

    from a text of Mag. Liss working at Institute of bible science and catolic privat university Linz in "Let your name be santified"

  • wizzstick

    because the correct pronunciation of the tetragram in hebrew got lost

    That was clumsy of God. Why did he allow that given it needs to be sanctified?

    How do you sanctify something if you can't even say it?

  • Phizzy

    I do not think that Almighty God has a personal name in quite the same way as we do, he is not Albert,Frederick or Harold.

    If there is only one god, he doesn't need a personal name to distinguish him. All other gods are presumably fictitious, just not your god, he is real.

    In Patriarchal times ones name was wrapped up with what a person was, or aspired to be, hence Abram became Abraham.

    To sanctify god's name means to make Holy his reputation, everything he stands for.

    YHWH is a clever way of saying I shall be whatever I wish to be, Redeemer, Leader of Armies, Instructor, The Merciful, even Avenger. You can no doubt think of others.

    How many who profess to worship God actually enhance His reputation ? too few I would guess.

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