The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat 327 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    but yhwh is read " backwards"---so gods name is actually huwee.

  • cofty
    Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?

    Are you serious?

    "almighty god" ... "this crucial time" ...


    Jesus never uttered the name. If he did, where is the story of the furious argument that inevitably would have followed?

  • slimboyfat

    Ah when the negative arrives, the Cofty comment inevitably follows shortly after...

    Where is your evidence that Jesus using the divine name would have caused an argument? The idea that using the divine name was totally forbidden in that period rests on various false assumptions such as that the LXX had eliminated the name. The evidence from LXX fragments, classical authors, onomastica and other Jewish and Christian sources assembled and analysed in the book The Earliest Non-Mystical Jewish Use of Iao, demonstrates the continued use of forms of the divine name in the first century.

  • cofty

    What is "this crucial time" exactly?

    Why are you talking like a Watchtower writer?

  • jaydee

    has 'slim' been hacked by the Russians too......?

  • slimboyfat

    jpw1692 interesting that Shaw also mentions Rastafarians and the Sacred Name movement, along with JWs, to illustrate modern diversity of use of the divine name, comparing it with diversity in ancient times.

    Also if JWs are right about the divine name, I'd suggest that the closely related issues surrounding the Trinity and the nature of God are likely to be correct as well.

    As JWs never tire of pointing out, names do change in translation, including the name Jesus. This does not make the use of the name in other languages somehow invalid.


    While there are a few copies of the Septuagint where YHWH was used

    Not just a few copies, but in fact every single surviving pre-Christian copy that preserves text including the divine name uses a form of the name rather than Lord.

    there is no positive proof that YHWH appeared in the New Testament or that early Christian groups used the divine name. There is conjecture and guesswork by some scholars, but that is not positive evidence that firmly establishes it.

    It's not conclusive at this point but it's better than guesswork, and the evidence is mounting. Plus other scholars suggest that Kyrios, written in full, was original, whereas the earliest copies contain nomina sacra abbreviated forms. So whichever form is original - YHWH, Iao, or Kyrios - the original form does not appear in the earliest NT fragments that survive.

    cobweb, lemonjuice and steve2 some argue for three syllables, like Nehemiah Gordon, but pronunciation can vary for names over time and in different languages.

  • stuckinarut2

    Simply having the right tools doesn't make me a qualified tradesman. The work I do is the proof.

    So too, simply using the name "Jehovah" (if we assume it is correct), doesn't make the religion known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" correct. Really, "by their fruits you will recognise them"

  • UnshackleTheChains

    I think the video below explains things in a nut shell. It's interesting that Jesus in his sermon on the mount encouraged us to pray to YHWH by the introduction 'Our Father'. And rightly so. It is much more intimate and respectful. Eg what do we call our own parents. Do we say their actual name or call them dad/mom/mum etc out of respect for them.

    It is great that we can try to pronounce God's actual name when making reference to him. Various religious groups may prefer to use Yahweh, others Jehovah etc. The point is he is our Father and we are his children. I personally rarely use the name Jehovah when praying to him anymore I always prefer saying 'Father' as Jesus did when praying.

  • jwfacts

    There is a lot of fairly meaningless waffle in those points in an attempt that cover over that there is no evidence that Jehovah appeared in the New Testament. If it didn't, then the rest falls flat.

    The topic of the word Jehovah is the one that Watchtower show draw upon more than any other to ensure their longevity, as it is a good differentiator from other religions. But it opens a can of words for anyone that comes to realize their dishonesty on adding Jehovah to the New Testament.

  • cobweb
    Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?

    I mean no disrespect, but your position on JW's does seem to vacillate quite wildly between some of your posts. Your comment above suggests you still believe the JW's are God's organisation and that this is the time of the end. Its hard for me to comprehend that you could still believe that after being on this site for 13 years. It's none of my business of course. Its just puzzling.

Share this