The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat 327 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Wonderment

    I previously said: "Posters like jwfacts and some others want JWs to wither and die. I too believe the JW movement poses enough danger to its followers."

    jwfacts´ response: "That's a bit insulting, an ad hominem dismissal of my opinions."

    I offer my apology if I came across as insulting. In contrast with some posters who like to offer a lot of rant with no substance, you offer a lot of information as a background for your viewpoints. I agree with a lot of your conclusions, sometimes not.

    You mention that JWs strangely use modern dates to show somehow that Jehovah supports their organization (Not quoting verbatim). I agree that such spectacle is weird.

    On the name of Jehovah, I agree that a contradiction is made evident when the WT sustains the complete inerrancy of the Word at the same time they claim the Divine Name has been tampered with. Not to mention the conflicting actions of the WT on various issues ranging from Child-abuse to the United Nations debacle.

    I may disagree however with the message often communicated (not verbatim) in this forum by various posters - in that the WT has to be wrong on the sole basis they lack scholarship and for holding a minority view against popular doctrines. As Frederick Danker once said after making a favorable comment on the Hebrew portion of the NWT : "We do well to test the spirits."

  • slimboyfat

    Have you read the book David Jay? It doesn't sound like it. You seem to misunderstand what it is about. And once more, inexplicably, yet predictably, on past performance, take it as some sort of insult against Jews. What on earth is that all about?

  • steve2

    There is nothing quite like a voice from afar, landing from on high with a scholarly thud by "demand' (Is this Cher making her umpteenth comeback tour?), making parent-like judgements about others' questionable ability to use critical thinking with dismissive pronouncements on a book likely unread and off the radar - and then the voice takes flight. Gone.

    In earlier times, chastened by automatic thoughts, I would have said, "We are honoured to have had you among us." Now I exclaim, "Who was that masked stranger?" and sip distractedly on my coffee.

    Pass the sugar, please. Bad but good.

  • johnamos
    b) It is well known that the name "Jehovah" is an interpolation of the letters of the tatragrammon with the vowels of 'adonai', concocted by a catholic monk in the 13th century, and, therefore, it is impossible that represents the correct hebrew pronunciation;

    Where is the vowel ‘E’ in ‘adonai’.

    Are the vowels from ‘adonai’ also responsible for these names as well…Jehoshua , Jehoshaphat, Jah.

    See post on page 10.

    Why is it important to use God's name at all.

    There are many reasons, but one that I think about is Ezekiel chapter 13. In that chapter it states that the stupid prophets mislead Jehovah’s people and are able to do so because they speak their lies as if what they say is coming from Jehovah himself.

    The following shows one way how the use of the name of Jehovah can help identify who the stupid prophets are…

    5-1-02 WT- The clergy are especially at fault. They refuse to use Jehovah’s name, even taking it out of their Bible versions.

    6-1-91 WT- Like ancient Jerusalem, Christendom looks to worldly alliances for security, and her clergy refuse to take refuge in Jehovah. Why, they do not even use his name, and they mock and persecute those who do honor that name.

    Teach Us book - We worship only Jehovah, we use his name, and we teach others God’s name and what he will do for us.

    12-15-14 WT- As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we have the privilege of being called by his name. God promises us that he is on our side helping us.

  • EdenOne
    Where is the vowel ‘E’ in ‘adonai’.

    There isn't any. The original interpolation was 'Yahovah'. The modern "Jehovah" is a further corruption of Yahovah.

    And yes, "Jesus" is also a corrupted form of Yehoshua.

    And, btw, "Yahweh" is also an interpolation of the letters of the Tetragrammon with the samaritan way of uttering God's name: YABE.

  • sparrowdown

    Arguing over the pronunciation and usage of YHWH is just as distracting and pointless as dropping the JHWH-bomb every second sentence as a verbal talisman like WT does. In my opinion, if Jesus thought the YHWH was such a biggie he was in the perfect position to resurrect the name and clear up any confusion about it.

  • johnamos
    The original interpolation was 'Yahovah'. The modern "Jehovah" is a further corruption of Yahovah.

    Thanks for pointing out ‘Yahovah’. I see that ‘E’ is not used, but I still fail to see how it is always said that the tetragrammaton consisting of consonants YHVH was infused with vowels used from ‘adonai’ and yet all other Hebrew names that only consist of consonants that need vowels infused in order to pronunciate them, there is never a claim the the word adonai’ was used to arrive at these names.

    If there is not any question or debate as to the correctness of these other Hebrew names, and if these names are said to mean ‘YHVH this’ and ‘YHVH that’, then it stands to reason that you would most definitely see a part of these names that are the same and what ever that part is (in this case it is JEHO), it seems very reasonable to conclude that that part should be in the correct name of the tetragrammaton. Also because the use of ‘Jah’ is not questioned this too should be found in the correct name of the tetragrammaton.

    The spelling JEHOVAH meets both criteria.

    JEHO vah

    J ehov AH

    "Jesus" is also a corrupted form of Yehoshua.

    It’s funny that you mention that, because out of all the debate on rather the name Jehovah should be in the NT no one seems to care that the name Jesus is used instead of Jehoshua or at least Joshua.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Funny that Jesus made the name Ya Ho VaH' known, yet nobody knows it.

    Seems to me that He made His name known not by pronouncing a name, but by living a holy and sacrificial life; testifying to His Father's love .

  • steve2

    I recall older Awakes and Watchtowers that provided "experiences" of Witnesses using the name of Jehovah when they were in threatening situations and the threat dissipated. Kind of like the name "Jehovah" being the verbal equivalent of producing garlic in the presence of Dracula.

    There certainly has been an at-times unspoken element in JW organization - more so in the past than currently - in which the name "Jehovah" itself was treated as having protective properties.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Picked this up:

    Quoting the Old Testament

    The Watchtower claims it rightfully restores Jehovah when Christian writers quoted from the Old Testament. This is based purely on speculation, particularly with no evidence of such in the Ancient Greek manuscripts.

    It is astonishing to compare the Watchtower translator's claims with what they did in practice.

      "When discussing "Restoring the Divine Name," the New World Bible Translation Committee states: "To know where the divine name was replaced by the Greek words Ky´ri·os and The·os´, we have determined where the inspired Christian writers have quoted verses, passages and expressions from the Hebrew Scriptures and then we have referred back to the Hebrew text to ascertain whether the divine name appears there. In this way we determined the identity to give Ky´ri·os and The·os´ and the personality with which to clothe them. ... We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering." Such agreement from Hebrew versions exists in all the 237 places that the New World Bible Translation Committee has rendered the divine name in the body of its translation." Insight on the Scriptures - Volume 2 p.267

    The 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation p.11, likewise claims the criteria for using the Divine Name in the New Testament was to replace the Greek words Kyrios and Theos with Jehovah whenever the Christian writers quoted from the Old Testament:

    The reader is led to the conclusion that every inclusion of Jehovah in the New Testament has support from an Old Testament quote. Yet an examination of the 237 inclusions reveals the following;

    • Only 76 times is Jehovah included based on a direct Hebrew quote

    • In 78 other instances the scriptures are not quotes, but reference Hebrew passages discussing Jehovah

    • 83 times the New World Translation has included Jehovah with no support from the Hebrew Scriptures

    Over 80 times the NWT has used Jehovah with no Old Testament support. On the other hand, there are also times when the New World Translation has chosen not to use the word Jehovah when the Christian writers quoted the Old Testament, even when done so by the J versions. This lack of consistency is because to do so would contradict Watchtower doctrine. For instance Isaiah 45:22-24 says;

      "Turn to me and be saved, all YOU [at the] ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no one else. By my own self I have sworn-out of my own mouth in righteousness the word has gone forth, so that it will not return-that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue will swear, saying, 'Surely in Jehovah there are full righteousness and strength.

    This is paraphrased at both Romans and Philippians. Whereas in Romans Jehovah is inserted in the NWT, in Philippians it is not, as to do so would result in equating Jesus with Jehovah.

      Romans 14:11 "For it is written: "'As I live,' says Jehovah, 'to me every knee shall bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to God.'""

      Philippians 2:9-11 "For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

    Also compare

    • 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 with Psalm 47:5.

    • 1 Peter 2:3,4 with Psalm 34:8

    • Hebrews 1:10 with Psalms 102:25

    • Acts 1:11,12 with Zechariah 14:3-4

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