The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat 327 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts

    Wonderment - Posters like jwfacts and some others want JWs to wither and die. I too believe the JW movement poses enough danger to its followers. That is why I stopped going to their meetings almost three decades ago. But to conclude that they canĀ“t get anything right begs many a question.

    That's a bit insulting, an ad hominem dismissal of my opinions. I have provided reasons on why I feel the weight of evidence still does not support the Divine name in the New Testament at

    As I mentioned, if evidence, as opposed to conjecture, appeared to support the Divine name in the New Testament, I would be the first to adjust my viewpoint. It just means Watchtower got lucky on that point, as they were that something interesting happened in 1914. If they had picked another year, there are plenty of opportunity to get equally lucky. For instance, if by chance they predicted 1918, then the Spanish Influenza would have been their proof that the last days started in that year. But that is all it is. They have plenty of doctrine that go against the norm, such as Jesus dying on a stake, so they are bound to get a couple right here or there.

    The topic of the Divine name in the New Testament is a lose/lose scenario for them. It has not been found, so why didn't Jehovah protect his name if it is so important for salvation? If it is dug up somewhere in a decade's time, why wasn't it found by 1919, when Jehovah chose his name sake? It is a bit late when Armageddon is already a century late, and Watchtower is already fading into irrelevance for all but the most uneducated and disenfranchised.

  • careful

    Perhaps those who are so opposed to SBF's thread here should get a copy of Shaw's book and read it...?

  • cofty

    Careful - JWFacts just answered your question before you asked it.

  • Ruby456

    well I'm pleased to have discovered that the divine name was used extensively in material culture by Jews and Christians. The divine name is found in the New testament but it is rendered adonai/kyrios. this combination occurs in material culture too but includes YHWH or Iao alongside adonai/kyrios in some cases.

    I don't think we ought to rely on textual sources only as such sources were made for the elites by elites. Jehovah's witnesses are often anti intellectual and anti elitist. So I wonder if this is one of the reasons that they retain the divine name and use it as it was popularly used in the first few centuries CE. By this means they wish to convey a link to early Christianity and Judaism in their popular forms.

  • Ray Frankz
    Ray Frankz

    Well I didn't read all the 14 pgs of replies but I saw a lot of downvotes in the main post of SBF. I don't think it was necessary. As some of you have said, sometimes the JW get it right, normally this 'right' actually comes from biblical scholars from the past (ones that the org classify as part of Babylon). The part that 'praised' the JW was from a published non witnesses' book and SBF only raised some questions. What I learned from Raymond Franz, Penton and Jonsson was simply that there is not a special organization down here on Earth for God's service. All of them are imperfect and have plenty of flaws, but THERE IS ALSO GOOD PARTS IN MANY OF THEM( I consider the JW environment way morally purer than other groups in my surroundings and it makes me feel good, maybe not you. I consider the Catholic art amazing, and the humanitarian service of many churches and example to follow). If these good parts are worthy to join anyone of them is to each individual decide.

  • Ruby456

    well said ray franz - my feelings re my family who are in too. I don't obsess or worry about them anymore. they are okay as witnesses.

    another thing about the greek septuagint - there were many and each used different renditions for the tetragrammaton. so there is no problem with using yahweh or Jehovah or Lord - it is up to each person or each translation.

  • Vanderhoven7

    "The important thing is to use God's name according to its conventional pronunciation in our own language." The Divine Name, p. 7

    Really - why?

    Why is it important to use God's name at all. I never use my Father's name. Yet I honor his name wherever I go because he is a man of integrity, faith and love.

    The WT cult has majored in minors since it's inception.

  • cofty
    I consider the JW environment way morally purer than other groups in my surroundings - Ray Frankz

    You obviously need to get out more.

  • steve2

    Wonderment makes some valid points but is also prone to inventing a false dichotomy. He says some exJWs have concluded JW organization has got everything wrong and evangelicals everything right. Hence the criticism of SBF.


    Please name anyone in this thread who has expressed those views??

    Or is Wonderment using hyperbole for effect?

    Most posters have responded to very specific features of what SBF has written - as indeed he has in response. Not one of them has expressed Wonderment's false dichotomy.

    If you must stand back and editorialize about the trends in answering, Wonderment, please stick to the observables please.

  • cofty

    Let's review - JWs and Evangelicals are all founded on a delusion.

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