Was that your segue into a discussion now on the Trinity?
The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name
by slimboyfat 332 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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menrov
i believe it is far overrated the number of people that have heard of the name Jehova(h). I dare to say that in numbers other names are more known like Hitler or Mao.
the WBTS did not bring any honor to the name for their God. False doctrines, manipulations, shunning, pedophiles, hunger for money....I do not read Jesus doing any of these things.
so far, nobody has the true original writings. All manuscripts available are still copies. None of them have the tetragrammaton. Strange that God either allowed this to happen or was not strong enough to avoid it. Or, may be that was exactly the purpose. All attention should go to His Son. He is now Judge and has all authority.
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jwfacts
Pretty candid discussion in their main publication on the topic The Divine Name that will Endure Forever:
There have only been a few occasions when they write candidly that there are no known fragments with the divine name.
Look how evasive they are in Reasoning from the Scriptures, not at all mentioning it has never been found, even though that is what they are answering. It is like a game of Jeopardy, "here is the answer, guess what the real question was?"
*** rs p. 278 New World Translation ***
Why is the name Jehovah used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?
It should be noted that the New World Translation is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah 18 times. Versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.
It is similar in the Watchtower 2008. The whole article is about why they added Jehovah to the New Testament, but not once do they say it has never been found. It rather introduces the topic with a more evasive comment:
*** w08 8/1 p. 18 Should the Name Jehovah Appear in the New Testament? ***
"Bible scholars acknowledge that God’s personal name appears in the Old Testament, or Hebrew Scriptures. However, many feel that it did not appear in the original Greek manuscripts of the so-called New Testament."
JWs are not likely to remember or even noticed the candid quote from 3 decades ago, what JW's remember are the numerous times Watchtower claims to have rightly restored the word Jehovah to the Bible, without any information that it was done despite contradicting all known New Testament fragments.
Credit is given to Jehovah protecting his word. You cannot have it both ways, did he protect it, or was the Divine name in the NT?
*** it-1 p. 313 Bible ***
All credit and thanksgiving for the Bible’s survival in view of such violent opposition is due Jehovah, the Preserver of his Word. This fact gives added meaning to the apostle Peter’s quotation from the prophet Isaiah: “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory is like a blossom of grass; the grass becomes withered, and the flower falls off, but the saying of Jehovah endures forever.”
*** it-1 p. 1206 Inspiration ***
God’s own purpose in preparing the Sacred Scriptures and the inspired declaration that “the saying of Jehovah endures forever” give assurance that Jehovah God has preserved the internal integrity of the Scriptures through the centuries. -
Half banana
Sbf I wish to dismantle your arguments by pointing out that the ”name of God” has no more relevance to real things as does giving serious thought to answering the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Why take the belief system of Iron Age Israel, one minor Levantine tribe with a theology borrowed from other more powerful nations, and who chose as their champion one of the seventy son gods of El in the Phoenician pantheon? (The Bible mentions other brother Gods of Jehovah and also his female consort Ashera).
The only facts we might be able to deduce are the evolution of the change in Canaanite mythology, otherwise you are (if they represent your beliefs) completely in the territory of infantile superstition, sacralizing ancient tribal folk lore.
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Ucantnome
Slimboyfat you said,
However, for those who maintain the holy scriptures, it poses a number of deeper questions.
Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?
And about Jehovah it says:
Acts 15:13 After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.
The taking out a 'people for his name' I believed was accomplished by the witnessing of Jehovah's Witnesses. I thought that they were commissioned in 1919 to speak to the nations in God's name and after twelve years of doing this, they took the name Jehovah's Witnesses.
So the question that you ask
Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?
I find directly connected to their preaching/witnessing.
I was raised as a witness, it was my parents that had Jehovah's Witnesses knock on their door and witness to them. They became JW and their hope was that they would never grow old and die in this old system of things but would live on into the thousand year reign of Christ. If was a false hope. They died as old people.
I can remember discussions between my father and people he met in the ministry when I was a child about the generation that will not pass away. I remember arguments with relatives regarding 1975.
After 1919 I believe the anointed who later took the name Jehovah's Witnesses were preaching 'Millions now living will never die'
So for me looking at their preaching and the hopes my parents had due to this witnessing I would answer your question that I don't think they did have his blessing and support.
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Ruby456
jwfacts, well actually there is evidence for the divine name dating from the 7th century BCE. amulets and scrolls discovered at ketef hinom near Jerusalem. But you know this would argue for the name being used as having magical protective factors which is how Jehovah's witnesses tend to use it I would argue. I think this is very interesting as they seem to be restoring an everyday activity that was open to all and not just to intellectual elites. Despite that the amulets found may have been owned by wealthy people they do testify to the use of the tetragrammaton as offering protection.
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steve2
SBF, you credit JWs with scholarly interest and investment. They have neither. It is enough to be told something is so - and, relievedly for untold numbers of JWs, there the matter is happily left - if it were ever picked over by any of them in the first place.
Meanwhile, among the unscholarly inclined rank and file, a cry is heard, "Anyone for tennis?...wouldn't that be nice."
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lemonjuice
slimboyfat wrote:
Slimboyfat. Your message is flawed ... I will just point out one reason.1)It is unfactual. You state above that it could have been possible that the same people who transmitted the LXX (Septuagint) who deleted the name in the NT. Impossible because the LXX was written by scholars in the period of 247BC to 117BC. Yes the completion was in 117BC .The LXX -Septuagint has absolutely nothing to do - no link at all with the NT ...
the evidence strongly indicates that the LXX in the first century contained various forms of the divine name. Yet by the third century (and subsequently) all Christian copies that survive use substitutes.
So the divine name did totally disappear from the LXX over a relatively short period of time. The question is not whether such a transition from use of the name to a substitute is possible. It happened. The question is whether the same happened with the NT text, which was transmitted by the same people who replaced the divine name with substitutes in the LXX in the same period -
Half banana
Sbf I wish to dismantle your arguments by pointing out that the ”name of God” has no more relevance to real things as does giving serious thought to answering the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Why take the belief system of Iron Age Israel, one minor Levantine tribe with a theology borrowed from other more powerful nations, and who chose as their champion one of the seventy son gods of El in the Phoenician pantheon? (The Bible mentions other brother Gods of Jehovah and also his female consort Ashera).
The only facts we might be able to deduce are the evolution of the change in Canaanite mythology, otherwise you are (if they represent your beliefs) completely in the territory of infantile superstition, sacralizing ancient tribal folk lore.
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lemonjuice
SBF wrote
I think it's important because it's one of the strong lines of evidence JWs can point to for having the truth. If Acts 15 is correct that God has a named people, then it's difficult to see who qualifies better than JWs.Well there are several examples but take one for example; the Bible says that baptism would be in the name of the Holy Spirit. Does the Holy Spirit have a name? According to WTS and many other Christian denominations ... No.
So necessarily associating the sentence of Acts 15:14 "a people for his name " with only referring to Jehovah is wrong.