The "Tree" of WHAT?

by Farkel 103 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    ARGGHHH!!... may I make a reply? Thank you, dear Farkel. Let's start with the erroneous assumption that God did not want Adam/Eve to 'the difference between good and evil.' That's not a true statement, dear one. My Father did not want His children to know good... AND bad. Indeed, they knew GOOD... and good was all they knew. He lovingly did not want them to also know BAD. And had they obeyed, they would have never known bad, for 'bad'... was sin and death. Had they obeyed, they would not have 'known'... sin and death.

    Regarding Adam/Eve being made in God's image, you are correct, to a point. They were made in His image in that they, too, had perfect spirit. He was 'holy' and so, they, too, were 'holy'. But they CHOSE another 'father', to have their spirits 'begotten' by another one. And thus, my Father CHANGED their 'image'... to what we are enslaved to now.

    Did God know good and bad? Indeed, my Father did know good... and He also knew 'bad'... for it is His number one enemy... Death... 'the last enemy'.. that is 'bad'. He, JAH, is good, and therefore, KNEW good. Death, however, is not only His enemy... but His brother. And thus, He also KNEW Bad. He just didn't want Adam and Eve to know him (Bad/Death).

    You're a father, yes, Daddy-O? Would precluding your children from knowing something... or someone... that could harm them mean that you were keeping something FROM them? Or would it mean that you instead LOVED them and wanted their lives to be as wonderful as possible?

    What you and I and everyone have to remember... NEED to remember, is that while JAH planted the Garden of Eden, He only sowed 'wheat' in that garden. The only 'seed' HE sowed... was 'good' seed. But if you recall, a 'man' (I will enlarge on that under separate heading), came and sowed WEEDS in the same field. You have to consider this from a standpoint of men and their 'seed'... or sperm.

    Adam and Eve were half-breeds, children given to God by the Earth (Hagar) until the children of God's 'free' wife, Jerusalem Above (Sarah), could be born. And like Ishmael, Adam and Eve were loved. But Ishmael's hatred of Isaac was born out in the same drama of Adam/Eve... and the Tree of LIFE... their half-brother, my Lord.

    Rather than subject themselves to him, just as Ishmael did not subject himself to Isaac, they instead disobeyed. And by disobeyed, they ALLOWED 'place for the Devil', and Death, the latter of whom came in and 'fertilized' Adam and Eve's HEARTS... with HIS sperm. Thus, rather that 'wheat' growing, such 'wheat'... Adam and Eve... because 'chaff'.

    But my Father did not stop there; He had a purpose and that was to populate the 'land', Earth, with HIS seed, by means of His 'free' wife. But that 'wife'... was barren; she could not yet give birth to children. And so, through Adam, my Father, JAH, allowed the 'seed' of the slave woman (Earth/Hagar) to promulgate. But, in order to see His purpose through, He removed His spirit from Adam... and placed it in ABEL. Thus, the 'seed' that Adam was SUPPOSED to righteously fertilize, was now the responsibility of Abel.

    But... Cain, the 'seed' of the Devil, and thus, Abel's half-brother... killed Abel. Where did God's spirit go then? To Seth. And Enoch. And Noah. And Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And while it was indeed UPON Moses, Aaron, Elijah, Samuel, etc., it went INTO... Judah... and on down the line to David... and on down the line... to my Lord.

    And it is by means of MY LORD that we who are the 'seed' of the woman today, are 'fertilized'. It is HE that 'pours out' such spirit and by whom we are now 'begotten'. And THAT is why HE is called, "Eternal... FATHER." For a 'father' is someone who 'begets' a child, offspring. He, then, is our 'father', just as Abraham was our 'father'... in that the LINEAGE of God's spirit comes through him, in the same way that the LINEAGE of Israel came through Abraham. The only thing that changed was that the 'conception' changed from being <i>physical</i>... to <i>spiritual</i>. We are not beget 'in the manner of the flesh', but in the same way that both Isaac and my Lord were beget, 'in the manner of the SPIRIT'... due to a promise.

    Adam had already received that 'begetting' when my Father breathed HIS spirit into Adam's nostrils. But Adam (Eve was deceived) CHOSE to DENY that spirit, IGNORE it's begetting (because for a CERTAINTY that spirit told him NOT to eat of the 'bad' tree)... and obey another.

    It really is not that complicated, Daddy-O, and it truly is not a 'fable'. I can absolutely understand how most people would think it one, though, because most have not had it accurately... and Truthfully... explained to them. They have relied on 'earthling' man to do the explaining, rather than simply go to the "Source"... the One from which Truth and Life flow... my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

    I am not asking you to believe it... or expecting you to. It's just that I was 'compelled'... by the spirit of my Father that is in my, Holy Spirit, by means of Christ... to tell the truth about the matter.

    I bid you peace and will see you in the post about 'man'.

    Your servant, friend and a slave of Christ,

    SJ (who may have to be here after all... we'll see... and thank you all for your patience.)

  • TR
    TR

    Very well done, Farkel.

    This bible account of Genesis is why Sitchin's theories sound more logical to me. It's way out there, but it makes more sense.

    TR

    "Kults Suck"

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    LOL@Kes - So Farkel's given you a headache? It's called 'thinking' (not so bad once ya get used to it :)

    unclebruce who can't see how the likes of frauds like MDS could give a gnat a headache, thanks for the laugh of the day Kes, take two FredHalls and if pain persists see DrFarkel in the morning.

    Hey Shelby - My Lord's better than yours! unclebruce with his slack happy Taoist Lord.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    wannahelp,

    : Is it possible that the "tree of knowledge" represented the point when man became aware of his existence?

    If you're saying that Genesis story is an allegory, then sure! It's a possibility. But the story sets out that Adam was smart enough to name all of the animals. Therefore he had speech at the very least. Speech which is not rote (like communication between birds and beasts), but requires thought, e.g. concocting a name for each animal is evidence of sentience. Therefore, if Adam was sentient and Eve was made from him, she was also sentient. Finally, if they were both sentient they were ALREADY aware of their existence. The simplest and clearest definition of sentience is "knowing that you know.

    : I.E. At that point, he became man, and not just an animal living for his animal existence (food, procreation, shelter).. But, once we "knew" that we were alive and were able to make choices for our own existence, we could feel "happy, sad, anger, etc...".. And, of course, we also knew that we would die some day...

    Once again, see my comment above. At the point in time that Adam could name the animals, he was sentient. Therefore your postulation that he somehow became "aware" at "that point" (eating of the fruit?) falls.

    Farkel

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Senor Kes,

    : You are the FIRST person, ever, for the 2 years i've been on the internet to ACTUALLY give me a Headache.

    Are you saying that perjoratively?

    If so, then please have at it and demolish my arguments. (You don't stand a chance! :) )

    If not, then perhaps you are starting to actually think and are not just swallowing everything that you "believe MUST" be true because the reference SAYS it is true. (See "circular reasoning.")

    Either way, I wish you the best.

    Farkel

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Greetings Shelby,

    : My Father did not want His children to know good... AND bad. Indeed, they knew GOOD... and good was all they knew. He lovingly did not want them to also know BAD.

    Explain to we dummies how one can know "good" without any frame of reference whatsoever about what "bad" means. There is no such thing as "good" without a thing called "bad." It simply cannot exist.

    Therefore, God created BOTH good and bad. Adam and Eve could NEVER understand GOOD without understanding what BAD means.

    Your argument collapses.

    I still love you, though. You just need to find some better "voices" to listen to, that's all. Tune to the "voice" of "reason." That would be a good start, I think. :)

    Farkel

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    OK Farkel, I can't hold it in any longer - you've hardly mentioned sex and have answered nothing. Adam spent much of his virgin time watching animals multiply. When Eve came along, she flashes her forbidden fruit, they do the business and start wearing clothes. How does this all fit in? Sounds like healthy lustful appetite they were hiding from God. Was God a prude? Was sex embarrasing? Was sex somehow forbidden? Was God a raging bi-sexual queen? How can fruit stop you diing? Does God get about naked? Does God get horny? How does God relieve his sexual tension? What's in this for me?

    unclebruce not calling God a wanker.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    As a father, were your children BORN knowing good and bad? Would you not have done everything you could to keep them from EVER knowing bad... if you could? What if all you needed to do was warn them of a danger... and all they needed to do was listen to you? Would you still say, "Yeah, but I want them to be <i>experienced</i>, well-rounded, so I think they NEED to know what sickness, pain, and death is. I mean, I know bad... and they should, too."

    Would you not, PARTICULARLY having known bad... Death... yourself, and what it COULD do to them and cause them... at least TRY to warn them?

    The 'voice' I hear IS 'reason', Daddy-O. As a mom, I PROMISE you that if there had been ANY way I could have saved either of my children a single day of pain, if there was ANY way I could have ensured their utter bliss and happiness, and if that assurance was simply a warning... you bet I would have warned them.

    Trust me, my kids KNOW my 'motto': You don't HAVE to make mistakes to learn; you can, instead, learn by OTHER'S mistakes. I have always told them... and would tell them if we were in the garden... wait... and watch what happens. You think I would have said, "Yeah, go ahead, eat?!" Nope, not me. I would have said, "Well, let's wait a 'day' and see what happens to those two. THEN if nothings happens, perhaps we'll take a bite. But NOT before the 'day' is over." And of course, we would have known the LENGTH of a 'day' back then, yes? LOLOLOL!

    Even my Lord wasn't born KNOWING good and bad, Daddy-O. He had to LEARN it. And he did, because he LISTENED to his Father. Promise. <B>Isaiah 7:16</B>

    I love you, too, as wide as the seas. All the way to Unk's house, even.

    Your servant, friend and slave of Christ,

    SJ (who wonders why my 'castles in the sky' are such a bother to some... I mean, as long as I don't ask you to JOIN something... or donate to it, right? LOL!!)

  • crossroads
    crossroads

    Unclebruce-------This sex thing makes the story even
    more unbelievable. Lets see they were commanded
    to procreate. Adam has been watching other animals
    do it. He was perfect so his swimmers were great.
    Now your going to tell me there is no bun in the oven
    before eating the fruit. Did Eve just get off the ground
    and go running to that forbidden tree or what?

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    Too right crossroads - none of it rings true except to the ear of ancient middle-eastern patriachs, their apologist scribes and lovers of sleep inducing fairy tales. All that sex talk served a purpose though - it's Friday night and I'm feeling lucky (lucky isn't my penis's name by the way)

    Shelby - you're calling God a wanker - that's what gets up peoples clacker.

    I better go muck up someone elses fred

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit