If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!
Those are not 250k converts 80-90% are born ins. What if the majority of the next generation don't have kids "because the end is so close"
Those are not 250k converts 80-90% are born ins.
In the US and western Europe, sure.
Their "preaching work" still has tremendous success in 3rd world countries, however - which is actually where most of the growth is.
I'd say overall, worldwide, probably less than half of those baptized each year are "born-ins".
I could very well be wrong.
It would be fascinating to get a breakdown of percentages of baptisms for each country - how many "born-in" vs. how many "from the field". No idea how such data could be collected, though.
slim, it's difficult to have a reasonable discussion when basic word meanings get changed. Your use of collapse is similar to the WTS use of generation. Collapse is sudden. 80 years is not sudden.
If you want to say the will go into a decline and the numbers will soon stop growing and move negative, then fine. That's just not collapse in any sense of the word.
It's fine, believe what you want.
Would it be true to say that the WTBTS's organizational framework in Russia collapsed suddenly? It took only a final judgment against them, a final court appeal, to allow that religion and all of it's property to be confiscated.
The lack of discipline within the JW worldwide leadership, it's reckless and harmful polices that were turned into religious dogma have left the congregations exposed. The government and public perception in Russia will eventually destroy whatever is left.
We are starting to see the concerns of other countries, the petitions circulating, to limit the interference of the WTBTS.
We can blame the various Governments and their judicial laws, we can blame the Society...........but what responsibility does the individual Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness share? By subscribing to reckless and harmful religious dogma it puts them in the cross hairs of every government that takes exception to those teachings.
Because of the inability to question it's leadership the individual congregations, except for third world countries, are now totally dependent on born-ins who have not become the stabilizing force their parents and grandparents once were.
I agree it will probably not be an immediate collapse as dramatic as Russia has been but more in keeping with what the Christian Scientist religion has been experiencing.......simply stated they no longer count as a viable religion. They are dying off as rapidly as they once did by refusing medical treatment.
Slim Yes it’s clear that third world growth is a problem for WT now that they no longer charge for the literature, so they’re actively working to curb the areas of growth that remain, by stopping sending missionaries and not expanding branches in poorer countries.
Wow. I knew missionaries were being cut back, but I wasn't aware of the whole picture....or probably I didn't think it through.
If this is true it is incredibly cynical of them, worse! In their own eyes they would have blood guilt not trying to convert the poor just because they are poor.
Bloody hell that's a pretty big indication the leaders either don't fully believe or are compartmentalizing like heck.
The disappearance of MethodIsm is pretty dramatic especially for those involved. I’ve had some conversations with Methodists and they seem bewildered by the pace of collapse. It may seem slow to you but to those involved it doesn’t seem to slow when a huge church you were born into is now all but gone.
What about the Worldwide Church of God, would you consider that collapse?
In fact is there any example of religious disintegration you would describe as collapse?
The business model of WT has already failed and they are in hasty retreat. The question is whether it will be a long decline as with the Methodists or a sudden fall like the WCOG. I think there are reasons to believe it will be more like the latter.
The peoples temple collapsed.
Methodists are declining.
I do not think there will be a relatively quick demise of JW numbers.
BUT I think that dropping the yearbook (especially as it could so easily be produced on line) is an obvious sign that the numbers are flat lining.
Dropping the average figure of publishers for 2017 and only retaining the peak figure can only have been done because the average figure looked worse. (maybe a decline) There is no other explanation that I can think of.
IF next year all we get is "highlights" then you will KNOW that even by JW "Peak" counting methods that they have gone into decline.
IF next year we get only the worldwide figure with a slight increase and no country by country measure you can be sure that the USA has gone into decline which - after this year's (2017) increase posted of +684 out of 1,232,293 = a "massive" 0.05% increase over 2016 - would not surprise me.
They didnt drop the average number. Its all on the website. Ss following
My apologies Morpheus - I didn't make myself clear - I meant average numbers country by country.