Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial

by Simon 240 Replies latest social current

• 

  Rocketman123

  Valid point Simon, but that would be dependent to just how much fentanyl is streaming through a person's arterial blood system at the time of the suppression.

  Lets say Floyd swallowed some tabs just when the cops pulled up behind him in his car. they didn't kick in right away but during the hold down they did and that stopped his heart and breathing.

  The toxicology report would have shown high levels of fentanyl in his system if that were the case.

  More information will eventually come forward about this, as well him dealing with Covid-19 symptoms.

  From the autopsy report he sounds like he was a train wreak about to happen.
  
• 

  Simon

  Lets say Floyd swallowed some tabs just when the cops pulled up behind him in his car. they didn't kick in right away but during the hold down they did and that stopped his heart and breathing.

  Right, it would be reason alone to acquit.

  The toxicology report would have shown high levels of fentanyl in his system if that were the case.

  That was the case.

  This case is a slam-dunk for the defence. The only doubt has been created by the media, creating a narrative and hyping it - trying to create the news rather than just report on it.

  Same as they did with Trayvon Martin.

  Same as they did with Mike Brown.

  Same as they did with all the others.

  People can keep being patsies and falling for it, or they can get a clue and learn to not listen to bad actors.
• 

  Rocketman123

  But can we be dismissive to the toxicology report made by that clinic ?

  Can we conclude those doctors and practitioners are falsifying those reports out of media persuasion and influence ?.

  Here's something I pulled up concerning fentanyl toward its usable safe level right up to its most dangerous level .

  Overdose results in respiratory depression which is reversible with naloxone. Sudden death can also occur because of cardiac arrest or severe anaphylactic reaction. The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg. The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml. Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved. While fatalities have been reported after therapeutic use, many deaths have occurred as a result of the misuse of pharmaceutical products. Both used and unused fentanyl patches have been injected, smoked, snorted or taken orally with fatal consequences.
• 

  Rocketman123

  It would be fair to say that Floyd has to take the majority of responsibility to what happened to him.

  Resisting arrest and fighting with cops is always going to produce a bad outcome and when the perpetrator has apparent health issues perhaps induced by illicit drugs the matters can dramatically turn for the worse.
  

  And what about those stupid street pedestrians that were shouting at the cops causing a disturbance causing the cop(s) to lose focus to what they were doing .?

  Shouldn't they also be held responsible ?

  I think so.
  
• 

  Anony Mous

  @Rocketman: That is exactly what the defense has shown so far: there was a large crowd that equally if not more contributed to the actions police had to take. That doesn't make the crowd responsible for his death though. They may have contributed. Same for the EMT, they arrived and couldn't get to him because of the crowd, should the EMT have pushed through, they MAY have saved him, that doesn't make them responsible. And this is the defense for Chauvin as well, he may not have died if not for the arrest, he may not have died if not for the restraint, but that doesn't make him responsible.

  What the prosecution has to demonstrate is that he had premeditated killing Floyd (first degree murder), acted in a depraved manner causing his death (second degree murder) or was committing a felony causing his death (third degree murder). The first one is unlikely, because he didn't know Floyd personally, the second one is not applicable because he didn't just randomly pick Floyd out of the crowd and wrestled him to the ground, the third is unlikely because he was authorized and trained to use the force he did.

  If they want him for manslaughter, that could be a thing but then they have to prove recklessness which means Chauvin knew he could potentially kill him but ignored this fact and then ended up killing him. However, as we have seen since, this was a common technique trained to him that was better than other forms of force, without his or common knowledge that this could've killed someone.

  The only thing they could get him on is not following his training to the letter (and even that is unlikely) and that would neither be manslaughter or murder, but just negligence resulting in at best a reprimand, at worst, him losing his job.
• 

  Rocketman123

  Some info about manslaughter ........

  Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, and gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply.

  It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability.[14] A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts themselves in a position where they will be unaware of facts which would render them liable.

  Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies (R v Adomako and "R v Perreau").[15] Another example could be leaving a child locked in a car on a hot day.
• 

  ThomasCovenant

  Anony Mous said,

  ''What the prosecution has to demonstrate is that he had premeditated killing Floyd (first degree murder), acted in a depraved manner causing his death (second degree murder) or was committing a felony causing his death (third degree murder). The first one is unlikely, because he didn't know Floyd personally, the second one is not applicable because he didn't just randomly pick Floyd out of the crowd and wrestled him to the ground, the third is unlikely because he was authorized and trained to use the force he did.''

  I didn't think Mr Chauvin was being charged with first degree murder, so you've confused me now. And I'm a bit confused with your descriptions of second degree and third degree murder.

  I thought the charges are,

  1) second degree unintentional murder, killing someone unintentionally but while using violence to commit a felony,

  2) third degree murder, an unintentional killing that occurs as a result of ''depraved mind'', generally interpreted as acting recklessly with a total indifference to human life,

  3) second degree manslaughter, a killing that results from an offenders' negligence.

  You also said,

  ''Same for the EMT, they arrived and couldn't get to him because of the crowd, should the EMT have pushed through, they MAY have saved him,''

  Again I'm confused, I didn't realize that the paramedics couldn't get through because of the crowd.
  
  
• 

  Rocketman123

  This is a partial snip-it off G Floyd's autopsy report, notice the amount of Fentanyl found ...

  George Floyd 20-3700 Page 2 III.No life-threatening injuries identified A.No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae B.No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures C.No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries D.No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries E.Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma IV.Viral testing (Minnesota Department of Health, postmortem nasal swab collected 5/26/2020): positive for 2019-nCoV RNA by PCR (see ‘Comments,’ below) V.Hemoglobin S quantitation (postmortem femoral blood, HHC Laboratory): 38% (see ‘Comments,’ below) VI.Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine) A.Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1.Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2.Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL 3.4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL 4.Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL 5.11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL 6.Cotinine positive 7.Caffeine positive B.Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol, isopropanol, or acetone C.Urine drug screen: presumptive positive for cannabinoids, amphetamines, and fentanyl/metabolite D.Urine drug screen confirmation: morphine (free) 86 ng/mL
• 

  joey jojo

  I've had 20 years martial arts experience and for a blood choke to be effective, both carotid arteries have to be constricted. If it's done well, the person can be unconscious in 10 secs, or less. If the choke is maintained, after 40 secs, there is a risk of permanent brain damage. Having said that, any trained person should know how dangerous any pressure applied to the neck area can be and should be aware of the amount of time that they are keeping someone in that position.

  I don't see a blood choke here. I see a guy full of drugs whose heart gave out under stress.

  I feel bad for saying this, but if it was a white guy, I would have almost zero sympathy, and sadly, for George Floyd, his lifestyle seemed to be on a collision course where it was most likely going to end badly.

  What makes the cop look bad here, was a lack of duty of care. George Floyd was not moving, or resisting, and the cop should have checked and rendered first aid.
• 

  Rocketman123

  Joey, from your knowledge and experience is it possible to put enough pressure on a person's neck while they are laying on the ground with a knee and body weight to make a person black out ?