Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? The recent changes and the Governing Body's 10 year plan

by redsetter2 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vidiot

    If what redsetter2 described here…


    …is actually the case (and I think it is), maybe he only has sporadic windows of opportunity to post, and therefore can’t always predict when they’ll be.

  • Badfish
    Additionally, private consensual intimacy and sex between adults of the opposite sex will be a conscience matter, as long as vaginal sex and pregnancy is not involved and as long as the activities are not broadcast openly to other members of the congregation. If a married person is involved, they must receive permission from their spouse and then respect their mate's decision if they refuse to permit it, otherwise a judicial committee will be formed and repeated attempts will be made to help that one gain "repentance".

    This right here is what makes me believe this list is false. Mainstream conservative Christian denominations view pre-marital sex as a sin. There is no way in the world that the JWs will label sex outside of marriage a “conscience matter.” The added part about “a married person must receive permission from their spouse and then respect their mate’s decision if they refuse to permit it” is a dead giveaway that this is not a real list of upcoming changes to JW doctrine.

  • Elmer

    Totally agreed Badfish

  • Vidiot

    Red hasn’t stated that these are set in stone, they’re simply on the table.

    If reforms like this were implemented, the WTS would never spell it out explicitly this way to the congregations…

    …it’d be detailed confidentially in a new version of the elders’ manual, and framed in more of an “avoid disfellowshipping too much”-type context.

    It actually dovetails a bit with hints from other alleged leakers…

    …that the current crop of GBers are less concerned with moral or ideological “purity”, and more preoccupied with the rank-and-file doing whatever the fuck they’re told, in order to keep the train from derailing.

  • LaFrancia

    What redsetter2 says about sex matches what Furuli wrote and sent to the governing body 5 years ago.

    The word pornoeia is not a specific but a generic word meaning “sexual immorality”. The Christian Greek Scriptures contain three references: 1) sexual intercourse between a married person and an unmarried person, 2) sexual intercourse between unmarried persons, and 3) sexual intercourse between homosexuals.

    In 1983, bestiality and fondling the genitals of a person to whom one is not married were included in pornoeia, and in 2018, “sexual immorality” without skin-to-skin contact was added to the definition. The three additions are human commandments with no basis in the Bible.

    According to Furuli, only 11 of the 45 sins currently the subject of judicial committees (today they are just called committees) are based on the Bible.

    We will see

  • NotFormer

    LaFrancia: "According to Furuli, only 11 of the 45 sins currently the subject of judicial committees (today they are just called committees) are based on the Bible."

    Is there a list of these 45 sins available out there somewhere? It would help my understanding of these matters immensely if there is! A list of the 11 actually biblical sins would be helpful too.

  • astroblema


    He's a list extracted from this article by Furuli:


    List of disfellowshipping offenses in the NT

    pornos A man or woman who engages in sexual immorality.[1] (1 Cor. 6:9)

    eidōlolatrēs One who takes part in idol worship. (1 Cor. 6:9)

    moikhos A person who commits adultery. (1 Cor. 6:9)

    malakos The passive male partner in homosexual intercourse. (1 Cor. 6:9)

    aresenokoitēs The male partner in homosexual intercourse. (1 Cor. 6:9)

    kleptēs A thief. (1 Cor. 6:10)

    pleonektēs Exploitation (Wrongly written in the Shepherd book as “Greed,” 1 Cor. 6:10)

    methysos A drunkard (wine) (1 Cor. 6:10)

    loidoros A reviler, an abusive person. (1 Cor. 6:10)

    harpax A rapacious person, a robber. (1 Cor. 6:10)

    anatrepō Spreading false teachings, overturning the faith, joining another religious organization. 1 Timothy 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:18

    hairesis Making a sect. (Titus 3:10)

    sfazō Manslaughter or murder (1 John 3:12)


    1. Strong circumstantial evidence of porneia
    2. Adulterous marriage
    3. Child abuse
    4. Momentary touching of intimate body parts or caressing of breasts
    5. immoral conversations over the telephone or the Internet:
    6. Viewing abhorrent forms of pornography
    7. Misuse of tobacco[1]
    8. Use of marijuana, betel nut
    9. Abuse of medical, illicit, or addictive drugs
    10. Extreme physical uncleanness:
    11. Unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or disassociated individuals
    12. Dating though not scripturally free to remarry
    13. Brazen conduct in different situations
    14. Gluttony
    15. Bloodguilt
    16. Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false witness
    17. Fraud
    18. Slander
    19. Obscene speech
    20. Gambling
    21. Greed
    22. Bride price, high
    23. Refusal to provide for the family
    24. Fits of anger
    25. Professional boxing
    26. Violence, domestic violence
    27. Celebrating false religious holidays
    28. Participation in interfaith activities
    29. Causing divisions of any kind
    30. Employment promoting false religion
    31. Spiritism
    32. Leave JW (Resigning from Jehovah’s witnesses leads to shunning)
    33. Accepting blood transfusion
    34. Violating Christian neutrality
  • Vidiot

    Know what’s weird?

    That murder, rape, and disbelief in God didn’t make the list, when far more bizarre things did.

    Know what’s even weirder?

    The absolute shit-ton of genuinely awful things on the list that some JWs have repeatedly done and not gotten DFed for.

  • Vidiot
    redsetter2 - “…Reportedly, many disfellowshippings take place because elders lack real discernment…”

    …and/or their zealotry is dialed up to eleven.

    Reminds me of another bit I read recently…

    …that the GB wasn’t giving nearly as many explicit marching orders (re. enforcing the rules) as we may have thought. More often than not, they simply trusted elders to not be assholes.

    It does dovetail with another recent (and surprising) allegation…

    …that up till around 2015, the GB themselves weren’t fully aware just how bad the Watchtower’s CSA problem really was, and only truly learned the full scope when the Org was required by law to organize and collate their relevant records.

    I find this plausible, as the Service Dept. under Jaracz was in charge of dealing with that (Jesus Fucking Kreist, that still gobsmacks me 😣), and would therefore have had the means, motive, and opportunity to make it as difficult as possible for anyone else to wade through the maze of paperwork.

Share this