A sincere message to those from the organisation monitoring my posts....
In what way is following man-made rules valid? In what way is turning a blind eye to sexual abuse valid?
I think the elders do monitor the site as much or more than anyone.
Next are we supposed to believe they don't look at porn either?
They are hypocrites, trying to make sense of their own horrible lives trapped in a cult.
I'm so glad I rejected the grooming towards becoming an elder.
As I reflect on my own exit, it was the moment I gained the courage to stop accepting "privileges of service" without feeling guilty, is when the slow awakening began. maybe 10 years ago. maybe even around the year 2000-01. New millennium, Sept 11th, wars, etc... and nothing.
How long can "soon" truly remain an urgency?
JW lurkers: Think hard on this. When in your long stint as a JW has the end not been "soon". Now read the definition of "soon".
Stop living the lie and begin living YOUR life.
As to elders monitoring and looking for apostates in their midst, yes they do.
I remember a brief phone conversation with two elders that called me to try and rope me into a j/c. I told them that I was interested in creating a "media frenzy" regarding my situation.
I missed this little slip up by one of them, Rob Council.
He said "aren't you already doing that?"
I missed this detail until this morning.
I hadn't done anything other than post on this forum, which he had clearly seen. The timing is documentable.
They tipped there hand that they were watching. He said it in front of Mike Mirich, who was on speaker phone with him, as was my wife.
I hope the entire body of elderz got to hear the call, or they recorded it because I told them all to "Fuck Off!" in a loud, clear voice. Like at my baptism. "Yes!"
Ancient Israel brought a lot suffering on it's people because of misguided men who chose their own ways. Similar today. Nothing new.
To the OP. You are not paranoid, and everyone posting on this forum, or anywhere online, should be aware that except for emails (which can also be hacked), your words are public.
If someone is looking to catch you up, whether it's a spouse, other family member, 'friend' or elder - they will be reading the exJW forums, reddit, etc. When a JW or JC wants to catch someone, we all know they have neither scruples nor boundaries (personal and / or legal).
Others have outed themselves by revealing too much personal information in their comments, in spite of repeated reminders by Simon to all of us, that the internet is not private.
Hope all is well. xx
Ohhhh, looks like we got a thumbs-down from the one you seek Stuck.
Now get back to putting in those hours in field service peddling your loyalty to those maggots in Brooklyn. And then get to studying that magazine I want to see at least 5 comments from you on meeting day!! And then get to reading your mistranslated NWT Bible and gather some good points from it BUT make sure you mention Jehovah at least 20 times!! Then when you pray don't forget to pray for Anthony "the Mane" Morris so he can finally whack that crap off his ugly melon. Remember if you don't do NONE of these, you will be destroyed at Armageddon!! This is backed by a 100% soul-sucking money back guarantee from none other than.....wait for it......Governing B*tches!!
Good day to you madam....I mean maggot. Hahahahahahaha!!!
Now get back to it!!! Hahahahaha!!!!
I had a similar experience
I went back through all my topics and posts and identified the bro that called me by my user name
I then had ammo on him
I never brought it up again and neither did he
He's an MS now
I would only recognize stuck if we were at a chinese restaurant, and he was trying to use chop -sticks with them claws!!!☺
Guys thanks for coming by. I'd like to take this opportunity to give my perspective on where I think things are at. It amazes me an organization that is so focused on finding interested people at doors and keeping the congregation clean that they fail to see the real reasons why people are quietly walking out the back door. This current service year jws grew by about 18k publishers. In the United states alone they are losing 2/3 of their youth, and have the lowest retention rate of members of any major religion. It has also been estimated that about 1,000,000 walk on the religion every 10 years. There are a number of reasons for this but I will discuss 3.
(1) YOUTH- Clearly with a 33% retention rate their procedures in dealing with their youth has been underwhelming. Ok I get the Israelite and the kh ain't a play ground concept. But since I left the JWs 3 years ago (I'm not dfed) I have visited other churches and I see the services which are specifically designed for their youth as been a fun, happy, exciting, and an age appropriate place where they can learn about God. If they don't perceive going to the KH this way then I'm sure Satan has got all the fun and excitement just waiting for them. These churches spend hugh money on their youth focusing on their problems and creating a Christian environment. Other than writing a 2 page article (e.g your youth) about keeping your legs together or how fun it is to meet your school mates at the door and the joy of free labour on a Wt construction sight. What else do they really do for their youth in a practical way.
(2)INTERNET= It would be fair to say that for myself and probably stucknarut we would still be sitting in the kh if it wasn't for the internet. Guys there is just to much bad information out there. If you wouldn't buy a product of some one who warned you about not looking on the internet because of all the bad reviews then don't expect someone to choose a religion like that. Wt has simply just got to be more open and honest and accountable with its history and the origins of it beliefs. I didn't even realise there was a problem with pedophiles until very recently. It just saddens me really that it wasn't until I started visiting apostate Web sights that I learnt more about the religion i though i knew than in 40 years of attending the kh.
(3) RETENTION OF IT'S CURRENT MEMBERSHIP= Not that I am complaining but I have to say that the follow up I received when I left was very very underwhelming. I was a 4th gen born in and served it for 40 years. I sincerely believed it doubt free for at least 30 of those years. I sacrificed so much for it (e.g an education and marrying a lovely women). Although I never gave my reasons for why I left. Only 3 people could be bothered to see how I was and they were not elders. 2 of those 3 stopped in for a drink between calls. To this day I really don't know what to make of it. Insulted, at just there complete lack of interest (as I knew thousands of jws) or thank full because I really didn't want to deal with them. To think what I gave to a group of men in Brooklyn and for what I got in return I'm glad I never spent another second of my life in that religion. Anyway I think you get the point of why a million people leave every decade. Wouldn't your time and attention be better focused on this poor elderly sister in a rest home who no body visits.
Although i get the point of human imperfection and all the other reasons for problems I think Wt has certainly got some accountability and answering to do. True people may not openly criticize the organisation for fear of been DFed. But trust me they are voting with their wallets and feet.
Guys if you would like to have an open discussion on improving the jw policies and procedures then please feel free to message me on here. Strict confidentiality of course.
Interesting post joe...
My thoughts on your thoughts...
I think the exodus by the youth just reflects a malaise amongst older ones that are stuck in with a far harder exit path. The same things that older ones are questioning are also being questioned by young people and the answers are less and less plausible.
Take evolution v creation. When I was 18 there were far less ways of verifying the claims of the society. Now so many claims can be easily checked and debunked. In spite of various pseudo scientific publications from the org most discussions about evolution v creation will boil down to "we just have to trust Jehovah". Why the hell should a student at school have to defend a position that man has only been here for 6000 years in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary purely on the basis of "faith"?
The continued "last days" has many questioning things. When I was 18 we were within the broad definition of a genuine generation. Now the argument has no scriptural basis and boils down to "we just have to trust Jehovah". Young ones do not have the history of change but they know the last days have been going on for a hell of a long time.
Just these two points illustrate the fact that so many of the claims of Witnesses ultimately boil down to "we just have to trust Jehovah". The only way to bolster this is through appeals to emotion which is what you see with the broadcasts and videos. Instead of giving people strong faith through doctrines that are clear and defendable, weak doctrines are being whitewashed with emotive videos that tug on the heart strings.
This approach is actually well described in an article in the current New Scientist Magazine.
For those that don't have a subscription here is a very interesting section:
Spinning a good yarn
When psychologists Melanie Green and Timothy Brock decided to test the persuasive power of storytelling, they found that the more a tale transports us into its world, the more likely we are to believe it. In one study, Green and Brock gave volunteers different types of short story to read, which contained some omissions or parts that didn’t follow. For instance, “Murder at the Mall” is based on a true account of a Connecticut murder, in which a little girl called Katie is brutally killed in a busy shopping mall. Her assailant was a psychiatric patient let out on a day pass. After reading the story, participants answered a series of questions about the events, the characters, policies about psychiatric care, and the like. Then came the key question: were there any false notes in the narrative, any contradictory statements or things that didn’t make sense? Green and Brock called this “Pinocchio circling”. They devised a scale to measure how engrossed a reader was in the story and found that the more a tale transported people into its world, the more likely they were to believe it – and the fewer false notes they noticed.
What’s more, the most engaged readers were also more likely to agree with the beliefs the story implied, in this case relating to mental health policy. It didn’t matter what they believed before the story; the tale itself created a new, strong set of views. And that’s what Gibson’s story did. It shows that you can believe yourself to be a hard-nosed sceptic, only to learn of Gibson’s ordeal and say, “maybe there’s something to this”.
Paul Zak, a neuroeconomist at Claremont Graduate University in California, has observed a similar phenomenon in his work on the power of stories in our daily interactions. He has repeatedly found that nothing compels us to receptivity quite like an emotional, relatable narrative. In one study, Zak and his colleagues had people watch a film where a father talks about his child. “Ben’s dying,” the father says, as the camera pans to a carefree 2-year-old. Ben has a brain tumour that, in a matter of months, will end his life, he says. But he has resolved to stay strong for the sake of his family. The camera fades to black. Watching the film prompted about half of the viewers to donate money to a cancer charity.
Why? Zak monitored people’s neural activity as they watched the film, specifically the levels of certain hormones. Many of them released oxytocin, a hormone that has been associated with empathy, bonding and sensitivity to social cues. Studies show that when people release this hormone they reliably donate to a stranger or charity even when there is no pressure to do so.
Then Zak changed the story. Now Ben and his dad were at the zoo. Ben was bald. His dad called him “miracle boy”. But there was no real story arc and no unequivocal mention of cancer or of the boy’s chances of survival. The people who watched this film were less engrossed, their oxytocin levels remained low and they donated little or no money.
Narratives like Ben’s, and Gibson’s, are particularly strong because they appeal to your emotions, rather than logic, and emotion is the key to empathy. It causes our brains to release oxytocin, making us more generous – with our money, our time, our trust, ourselves. The better the story, the more we give. The better the con artist, the better the story.
So as much as we would love to call Gibson an outlier, that’s simply not true. As long as we continue to be swept up by emotional stories, of tales of redemption, of overcoming odds, there will be a Belle Gibson ready and waiting. After all, what’s better than a good story?
Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get us.