Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer 240 Replies latest jw experiences

  • TheLiberator
    Cofty: You cite the bible regularly and base your knowledge about god on things contained in it. Without the bible there is not one single statement you could make about god or Jesus.
    Jesus believed in the god of the OT. "Yahweh was the god and father of our lord Jesus". Jesus quoted frequently from the OT. All the NT writers believed in the OT as the authoritative word of god.
    You seem to be claiming to know more about god than Jesus did.

    Wow!!!! I cannot believe I actually hit the like button on that one. You see Cofty, miracles do occur! There's your proof.

  • cofty
    There are no books that tell us anything at all about Jesus outside the NT. - Cofty
    You haven't looked far enough. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds.- Believer

    Please give me an example of just one. Without the bible you would not be able to make even one simple statement about the person, life, example or teachings of Jesus. You know this is the case which is why you are evading a simple question by mysels and startingover.

    This is exactly what I mean by intellectual dishonesty.

  • cantleave

    Great Teacher............Great Post :)

  • Giles Gray
    Giles Gray


    "Now, the questions you ask are questions that would be posed by a mind that cannot really know anything. So flighty and philosophical."

    My questions were asked purely from a practical, easy to understand perspective.

    If you think they are in any way "philosophical" you might not have read them carefully enough.


    "It is hard to have a conversation with a mind that thinks like the wind. But let’s do this another day, when you have real questions that can spark an intelligent conversation."

    Maybe i have given you too many questions at once. So I'll just ask one, simple question.

    If "we don't have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses...", as you said in your earlier post, how can anyone know if a supernatural experience is authentic?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Welcome, Believer.

    I can’t subscribe to the idea that this life is all there is - yes, I sometimes find it difficult to accept.

    This forum is basically very tolerant - people of all different types of opinions and beliefs are allowed to post here.

    But if a poster posts a view that they advocate, they'd better be able to back it up with sensible arguments based on hard evidence. It will rightly be subject to scrutiny and critical thinking.

  • cofty
    I feel no need to shy away from the OT completely. Part of the difficulty is the huge cultural divide - OLI

    The OT approves of slavery, infanticide, kidnap, forced marriage/rape and genocide. It is not simply that Yahweh tolerated these things, he commanded them. Would you like references?

    Cultural relativism doesn't work. It claims to be inspired of a god who is unchanging in his goodness. Yahweh was the "god and father of our lord Jesus christ" so Jesus of the NT is tainted by the appalling ethics of the OT.

    He really is is sovereign. He can do as He pleases. God is loving, but He can also be angry - OLI

    Do you mean that love and goodness are the same thing as "might is right"?

    A generic deity can of course do anything they please. A god who claims to be the epitome of love, goodness, righteousness and mercy cannot unless they also want to accept the label of hypocrite.

    This is why we can say with confidence that the god of christian theism doesn't exist. The bible makes claims about god that cannot be reconciled with other claims it also makes. Reality also conflicts with the narrative of christian theism.

  • TheWonderofYou

    Hi, I believe in that that Jesus wanted to tell people something, what it was exactly is hard to explain, because we will in other times. But I believe that Jesus wanted a church and that he would accept all of us the doubters, skepctics, querists..... this was his mission to let the love shine like a bonfire. For jesus Gods love, the holy spirit" should come and live in peoples heart, that would be the kindgom of what he spoke. I believe that Jesus looked after the sense of the commandments and that we are allowed to do the same.

  • Ucantnome

    how have I managed to keep my faith? I suppose nothing changed as to the reasons I had my faith it was just that the reason I was going door to door preaching was no longer clear and so i stopped.

    why i choose to believe is for a variety of reasons probably the primary reason is experiences good and bad.

  • punkofnice

    I no longer believe. I'm happy to leave it at that, if everyone else is. It's just when I get preached at that I emerge from my shell. Just because I don't believe doesn't mean I'm now evil.

  • Tenacious

    Present! Welcome! I'm also a believer Believer you are definitely not alone. Unfortunately, many of our friends on this forum have been so put off by the idiocy over in WT land that they've abandoned belief all together. Yes, there are things that seem to point to evolution but there are also things that point to a creator.

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