Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer 240 Replies latest jw experiences

  • GrreatTeacher

    People deserve respect. Always.

    Ideas are best respected by tearing them to shreds to see if they withstand scrutiny.

    There is a difference.

  • Believer

    Great Teacher, I agree. So shred the ideas, but respect the person. There is no need for personal attacks and name calling. I don't there there has been any yet on this thread. (Can't remember and don't wanna look back.) So, so far so good!

  • azor

    An example of the merits of ridiculing strongly entrenched belief systems. Google "How Superman defeated the KKK." When this ridicule took place the KKK numbered in the tens of thousands in the U.S. with numerous members in high political offices including the presidential cabinet. Once there ridiculous beliefs were exposed for all to see it began to fall apart.

    Faith and belief are not virtues. They are not sacred cows. They deserve derision, public mockery, and humiliation. What happened this last weekend is due to a belief system.

    It's high time that our culture and civilization for its own survival deride the strongly entrenched beliefs of all. We can have a discussion and respect each other as human beings but beliefs are another thing entirely.

  • startingover

    Believer, you replied to Cofty:

    There are no books that tell us anything at all about Jesus outside the NT.

    You haven't looked far enough. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds.

    He's probably sleeping now, but you are now going to have to prove that.

  • startingover

    Believer, I want to respond to my question about being a convert or a born in. A majority of born in's when they figure out the"truth about the truth", are very skeptical and atheism is what results. Converts on the other hand revert back to their previous belief system.

    Here's a video which is directed right at you

  • Believer

    Starting Over, you want me to prove there are other books about Jesus beside the NT? Just google it. They are not hard to find! If you want to find other books about Jesus, just look.

    And thank you for the video. I'd love to respond to it. Is there a transcript of it? It asks so many important questions that deserve a response. If you can direct me to a transcript, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll listen again tomorrow, take some notes and get back to you. This should be interesting!

  • Believer

    Oh, and I did answer your question. I am a convert. Fortunately none of my family converted and my children were taught by me and trusted me, and left when I left. So leaving was easier for me than for many JWs.

    I was a convert, but not from any other religion. I was a teenager when I was baptized with JWs and I had no religious training or upbringing. It was solely my choice to join and my choice to leave.

  • dubstepped

    Haha Believer, you found out why "believers" on here don't post much. It's like when you're a dub and someone at work finds out that you are and then you're descended upon by 10 people each questioning you and wanting an answer as they pick apart your faith like piranhas on prey, from every direction at once. Same thing here, only you end up trying to defend your belief in God to people that don't believe.

    I went through a period where I still believed in the God of the Bible myself, but I'd never talk about it here. I had hoped to find people with similar thoughts and feelings and realized quickly that you can't just post and have a discussion with your fellow believers because those that don't believe take it upon themselves to dominate the discussion and challenge your every word. It's just no fun. Like you surmised, you're outnumbered here.

    I no longer really believe myself, but because I chose to take it upon myself to challenge long held notions, not because a bunch of people tried to reverse JW me by proselytizing as hard for atheism as we formerly did for theism. I believe there may be a God, but if so he's surely done a piss-poor job of making himself clear as to what he wants and values, so I'm not worried anymore as to whether it's the one in the Bible or some other "holy" book or something altogether different or something that simply doesn't exist and is man-made. I don't have to know everything or claim to know. My ego doesn't need to be right so much anymore. I had enough of that as a dub. I believe in possibility and science that shows what we know so far, but nothing gets my absolute faith anymore. Everything is subject to change and none of it deserves my devotion. I just want to live a happy life, do no harm, and look back someday when I'm dying and appreciate my life rather than worry about whatever is to come.

    Best wishes on your journey.

  • Bonsai

    Why believe in God? Those who are not satisfied with reality and mortality need to believe in god. That's fine. Death isn't pretty. Evolution won't tickle your ears or fill you with fantasies that distract you from the hard core realities of this universe. For every species that successfully evolves to continue to survive and adapt to its ever changing environment there are dozens of species that go extinct. The universe can be a real (insert colorful word here) and I get why some people need the opium of religion. Believer, May your belief in your deity bring you strength and comfort!

  • Giles Gray
    Giles Gray


    We may know now which men, but I think its pretty clear and widely accepted that it was written by men. I’ve never heard a valid argument that supports a conclusion that it was written by Satan.

    My point wasn't to do with who wrote the bible. It's mainly attributed to being inspired of god, so effectivly he wrote it.

    My point followed on from your comment where you said that "we don't have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses..."

    So even if an angel appeared to you, how would you know it was not some spiritual hoax by some other being acting as an angel?

    If Jesus materialised right in front of you, how would or could you know that it wasn't actually Zeus playing a game?

    My point is, if you have no way to perceive the spiritual relm, as you rightly say, how can you know if any supernatural experience is authentic?

    And if Satan wrote the bible, how do you know that he hasn't tricked everyone into thinking otherwise? What valid argument could prove or disprove such a claim?

Share this