Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality...

by logansrun 151 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Ravyn

    startingover--yes! the snake is the only one who didn't lie.

    Little Toe---what makes you believe death is something to fear or sting? I never can figure out why Christians who supposedly look forward to living in Heaven after death are so hung up on dying being so terrible.

    I have found christianity to be dark and gloomy and sad. It tells you that you are never good enough and will die. and only if you are good enough will you get anything else. all based on this Genesis story that does not even say what churches claim it does. and for the ransome thing---yes it is a victim mentality. always needing someone else to save you. how can this be in the image of god?

    humans had life before the whole forbidden fruit episode. this is like saying thank you to the guy who burns your house down for knocking on your door and telling you first so you can get out.

    only if you insist that death is the end of it do you fear death and feel it stings. how much comfort does christianity give to those who lose loved ones in death? obviously not enough. don't you think it is supremely selfish of us to wish our beloved was back with us suffering with cancer rather than living in heaven totally happy? what kind of faith is that? And I dont buy the human being selfish and flawed to feel that way--if christianity was worth anything it would atleast engender enough faith and hope to overcome that so-called human tendency! after all didnt christ supposedly conquer all that? so where is the proof of it in his followers?

    I believe life once lived is never non-existant. death is only the portal to the next thing. it is fearful only to the extent that it is unknown. and I believe life goes on. and it does not depend on someone else to continue. It MAY have depended on someone else to start it, but once set in motion it was not flawed or defective and in need of a savior.


  • siegswife

    Hi! I'm a Christian and I don't feel that way at all. Since leaving the WTS and seeking to have a true understanding of what the moral of the story in the Bible is, I feel the opposite. I am no longer a victim. I don't feel like I'm under a "sentence of death". I don't live in guilt and fear because of "sins" and I no longer feel the need to judge other people for what they believe or don't believe. (Well, maybe with the exception of politics. LOL) I've become more of live and let live kind of person.

    I think it depends on the persons perspective just like in anything else, no?

  • StinkyPantz
    My understanding of it is that God accepts you "warts and all".

    Then we obviously have a different "understanding". God seems pretty picky to me. I'll list how picky later, gotta go get out my trust lil Bible for some scriptures.

    The "but" is simply - He loves us, and nothing but hard-heartedness would make us refuse that love.

    Jesus has never spoken to me, so how would I know he loves me? This makes no sense to me. Like I said, he expects people to accept his "love" when most people born see him as simply a man that lived a couple thousand years ago. He's as obscure to some, as Muhammed is to most of us. (Taking into account a person's birthplace, home environment, and other psychological factors, and it's very hard for most people to believe that Jesus was more than a man.) I accept his love as eargerly as all of his contemporaries that had a few chapters written about them. Plus, how can he expect a tribeman's in Africa to accept his love? And if you say that those that were never exposed to Christianity automatically get in heaven because they never actually rejected Jesus, then they have an unfair advantage being born in remote places.

    Were you ever upset with your parents, as a child, and they put their arms around you in love?
    Maybe you were stubborn and angrily refused their love, but eventually you succumbed...
    ...or did you?

    What's key here, it that I had physical, tangible contact with my parents. Jesus ain't never hugged this girl.

  • LittleToe

    Being "Christ-like" is simply acting in an altruistic way, such as the character portrayed in the bible as Jesus. You don't even need to have read the bible to act this way. But you know this.

    Tell me more about this monkey...

    Being a Christian is IMHO have a living and personal relationship with Christ. That presupposes that that One lives and interacts.
    Taking the supposition that that One doesn't exist, and/or live now, I'm guessing would make one predisposed to not gain such a relationship (although I understand it's been known).
    Incidentally, I believe Lao Tzu existed. I guess I could be wrong about that, too.

    I love maps. One day I followed one into an area that stated "There be dragons!", and it was the start of a wonderful adventure

  • LittleToe

    There is no execution - one day your body will die.
    Did God strike the baby, or did David just perceive it that way?

    I agree, once life starts, it is eternal.
    IMHO Christianity is about accepting the love of God and coming into a relationship with Him, REGARDLESS of how good or bad you are.
    Death isn't the end, it's a new beginning.
    As I said - I don't fear death.

    Are you looking at the God of the Old Testament (as perceived by those writers), or the Jesus of the New?
    Btw, He kisses you (and your African tribesman friend) every time the sun rises and sets...

  • StinkyPantz

    ((LT)) I'm done. One day I'll accept that I've never get answers to my questions. .but at the same time I will never allow myself to believe without the answers.

    I still agree with Bradley's original post.

    What I really wanna know is why MSN has a lamb as an emoticon? I mean, how often will that be used?

  • seven006

    Little Toe,

    I have a hard enough time trying to figure out how to be "Dave like" and understanding what the hell that means.

    I remember the first time my mom chewed me out for digging tiger traps in the back yard and my step sister twisted her ankle in it. She said "that's not very Christ like" I thought to myself, he walked around all day in sandals and a dress, preached to people, didn't have a job, rubbed peoples dirty feet and had a spear stuck in his ribs. I could live without being "Christ like."

    Taoism is a very interesting ism. One ism lead to another ism and ended up with the writing of Vatsyayana and the Karma Sutra. Those Orientals sure knew how to party and praise god at the same time. It beats the hell out of the Kabbalah. I'll take eastern philosophy over Western religion any day. It's all bullshit but at least the Orientals had a better sense of humor and a lot better food.

    I can't tell you about the monkey, you are too easily influenced.


  • donkey
    My beliefs come from a love, a pure love from deep in the heart for someone naming Christ who died in order that I might live forever.

    Just look at what you wrote...

    Now ask: Is Christ God? If so why did he have to kill himself for you? If a regular human made up some game where he had to kill himself for you based on his own rules - would you think that person was smart?

    If Christ is the one granting you the opportunity - then why can't he just grant it? Why expect me to be grateful when he was stupid enough to make up such a stupid system of justice in the first place?

    It's like me saying to you: You can have $1 million. Now you go ahead and spit on me. So now I say: Well in order to give you the million bucks I will have to kill myself first. Does this sound sane?


  • LittleToe

    Your mum was right. the Messiah wouldn't have dug a pit, but he might have fallen in it. It depends if it was near an elderberry bush, and contained a mute man (clue - Life of Brian).

    Don't get me started on Qabballah!!!

    I'm not easily lead. You're secretly spanking it, aren't you?!!

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    From Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Self-Reliance"

    "In this brief excerpt, Emerson speaks to the necessity of being a
    nonconformist to be fully alive, and of resisting enculturation.
    Society demands conformity at the expense of individual liberty, he
    asserts-it demands that you fit in or be an outcast. Emerson insists
    on the integrity of the individual mind, maintaining that it is
    sacred. Now, remember that Emerson was also a minister, who is
    informing us that the mind is what is sacred: not the rules, laws,
    and societal mores, but your mind. Further on in "Self-Reliance"
    Emerson declares, "No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature."
    This profoundly courageous statement is from a fearless man who knew
    that divinity and sacredness are not in the institutions of the
    church but in the minds of individuals. Our conduct makes us divine
    creatures, not our memberships. How we use our minds as free-thinking
    people is what makes us sacred, not how well we cite the laws to
    protect our malice or vanity."


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