Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality...

by logansrun 151 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  logansrun

  I'm going to be a man of few words here. Christianity, in it's truest, fundamentalist form, promotes an unhealthy and non-productive victim mentality. The Christian feels helpless on his own -- condemned by sin and absolutely unworthy. They must call on a force which there is no empirical evidence for whatsoever to solve their problems. The entire fundamental message of Christianity is, "You're helpless without Jesus."

  Furthermore, the Christian feels he/she is the victim of the sin of two people who lived six-thousand years ago. They cannot help sinning themselves. They are powerless against their weaknesses. Read Paul and you will see a man who feels worthless without the drug of the psyche which he calls the Ransom. Everywhere in the New Testament you see it: victimology, helplessness, weakness, guilt, shame, defenselessness. All this is said to magically disappear because God or the son of God died -- himself a victim.

  I say no. I say I'm not a victim. I say I have the power in my own life to face the challenges of existence no matter how joyful or how painful it is. I'm my own Messiah. I am a Christ unto myself.

  Don't be a victim. Don't look for some imaginary outside help from a crutch which no one has seen. Jesus doesn't save. Save yourself.

  Bradley
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  Hamas

  Brilliant post, Brad.

  I would shake you by the hand, if not for the miles between us.

  One of the best posts and most agreeable I have ever read. Thankyou, my friend.

  SAVE YOURSELF.

  Well said..
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  teenyuck

  WoW!!

  I agree!! Great post...
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  tinkerbell82

  let me preface this by saying i am not a christian, and i do not claim to have anywhere near the theological or philosophical knowledge that you or indeed many of the posters here have. this is just my two cents.

  you said:

  They are powerless against their weaknesses. . Everywhere in the New Testament you see it: victimology, helplessness, weakness, guilt, shame, defenselessness. .

  do you contend that christianity creates these feelings in its 'victims'? because i've felt all of these things for most of my life, in a way that is totally unconnected to christianity. i'm not trying to refute what youre saying, but simply get a better understanding of it, i suppose.

  All this is said to magically disappear because God or the son of God died -- himself a victim

  even if it is just a fairy tale....so what? if i'm desparate for comfort in my life and the thought that i've been saved by an act of grace or 'victimization' brings exactly that to me, what's the harm? maybe having a security blanket isnt all that noble, but if my delusion isnt detrimental to anyone else then why bother bursting my bubble?

  just a thought. it's not for everyone, it's not for me, but maybe it makes some people feel less alone, and they can keep it as far as i'm concerned.
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  logansrun

  Thanks Hamas.

  Friedrich Nietzsche (who I do not always agree with) once called the morality in the Judeo-Christian religion a "slave morality." The Jews (supposedly) were slaves to the Egyptians. Then the Babylonians. Always oppressed, always looking for their Messiah, is it any wonder that they developed a philosophy of victims?

  The Christians took this attitude and ran with it -- in fact, making it worse. They were victims of the Romans and victims of the Pharisees (supposedly). But, in reality, they were victims of themselves and their self-deception. "Deliverance will come when Jesus arrives...." -- stunting their development psycholigically, philosophically, economically, politically and scientifically. Make no mistake, the JWs DO come close to the philosophy of the first Christians -- divorcing themselves from action and responsibility and waiting for a dream to materialize which simply never comes. It was only because of the work of Christian thinkers in later centuries that people were able to live a somewhat normal life. By pushing the parousia further into the future (or completely spiritualizing it) people could get by with what was right in front of them. But this was at the expense of intellectual honesty. Instead of throwing out the failure which is Christianity they paint over it's defects and apply remedies which simply diverts people's attentions away from it's unfullfillment. This process continues to this day.

  Don't be deceived into thinking the real problem is the JWs. Truly, it really is Christianity which is to blame.

  Bradley
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  Ravyn

  wow Bradley! you can have your choice of where you want to bite me for that post! very good.

  Ravyn
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  logansrun

  Tinkerbell,
  

  do you contend that christianity creates these feelings in its 'victims'?

  Yes and no. Some people have an intensely helpless and pessimistic mentality and are drawn to Christianity -- JW or otherwise. Others are shaped and molded by Christianity (usually from their upbringing) and simply believe what they are told.
  

  because i've felt all of these things for most of my life, in a way that is totally unconnected to christianity.

  Everyone feels this way sometime -- even the most positive and proactive people on the planet. You seem like a positive person so I am surprised you think of yourself this way in general. All the same, I'm not saying that people should not naturally think of themselves as helpless and powerless victims. My God, it's embedded in our culture and upbringing! My point is that we can work and think through these feelings -- not give in to some fairy tale which doesn't stand a multitude of tests from a wide range of disciplines.

  even if it is just a fairy tale....so what? if i'm desparate for comfort in my life and the thought that i've been saved by an act of grace or 'victimization' brings exactly that to me, what's the harm?

  What do you think the harm might be? I'll let you think about that.
  

  maybe having a security blanket isnt all that noble, but if my delusion isnt detrimental to anyone else then why bother bursting my bubble?

  If someone realizes they are in a delusion can it possibly be comforting anymore? I've seen people face the facts which damn Christianty (or the JWs) and they try and twist their minds into a pretzel to hold onto it -- thus furthering their delusion and pain. Also, even if damaging or destroying the faith of some does hurt them, so be it. Better that they face reality. And, better still that they don't promote their delusion for others to be misled.

  just a thought. it's not for everyone, it's not for me, but maybe it makes some people feel less alone, and they can keep it as far as i'm concerned.

  I'm not saying people should not give up all their spiritual values or face a life of empty loneliness. There ARE other options out there. More to come....

  Bradley

  PS -- I am not dispariging some of the great thoughts Jesus and his followers taught. Nor am I saying there is no benefit in Christianity whatsoever.
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  tinkerbell82

  bradley -

  i certainly dont want to lock horns with you in a philosophical debate of this nature...you win, i concede! your post simply made me think of my family. my grandmother and aunts are your run-of-the-mill christians...they have no real interest in discovering the ultimate truth of life, theyre not on a quest for knowledge. they simply believe in god and feel comforted by that belief. any time i try to challenge their beliefs with factual evidence suggesting theyre wrong, their response is that they believe what they believe regardless, and it keeps them happy. so long as theyre not foisting their beliefs onto me, which they dont, i'm fine with it and i'm happy that it works for them. to strip that belief away from them would be cruel.
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  logansrun

  Oh, I can just hear Christians now saying, "But, I don't feel helpless! I pray to Jesus and he gives me the strength I need! He has helped me many times before!"

  Baloney.

  You are praying to a placebo. You can get by as an individual without any supernatural outside assistance. That's how good evolution has molded you. I'm not saying that God doesn't exist and that prayer isn't good at all, but realise this -- any good or empowering action you do comes from YOU. No one -- not God, not Jesus, not the Buddha -- helped you. You did it. Be thankful.

  Bradley
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  logansrun

  Tink,

  Ah, you're too cute for me to argue with you.

  You said,

  your post simply made me think of my family. my grandmother and aunts are your run-of-the-mill christians...they have no real interest in discovering the ultimate truth of life, theyre not on a quest for knowledge. they simply believe in god and feel comforted by that belief. any time i try to challenge their beliefs with factual evidence suggesting theyre wrong, their response is that they believe what they believe regardless, and it keeps them happy. so long as theyre not foisting their beliefs onto me, which they dont, i'm fine with it and i'm happy that it works for them. to strip that belief away from them would be cruel.

  I agree. I would not attempt, nor can I try, to change someones beliefs. Change must come to the willing. For those unwilling or ambivalent -- fine. They're not damned to a hapless life. My main concern is not the "run of the mill" Christians such as your family. My concern is the fundamentalist Christian -- those that I feel truly come closer to the message of the first century Christians (save the Gnostics who I admire). There are varying degrees to this mess. I'm not out to kill.

  Be well,

  Bradley