Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus 194 Replies latest jw friends

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  cofty

  He divided the group into male and female camps and left them on an island.

  After a few days the men had a water-tight shelter, a campfire with reserves of wood, they were hunting and fishing and generally dealing with the hardships. To be fair they didn't all get along but they worked together in common interest.

  The women quickly split into cliques and invested their time and energy in rivalry. They built no shelter. They mostly slept and sunbathed. Half the group decided to go off on a recce. They spent 3 or 4 days totally lost and eventually made it back to camp with no intel, food or other resources - but lots of new causes for division.

  Then the weather changed. The men were warm and dry and had food. The women were soaked, cold and hungry. They trekked to the men's camp and cried a lot.

  The women had been supplied with a fishing net. They had caught nothing. The men offered to take the net, catch fish and share them with the women. The women told the men to f. off. The women went hungry.

  To be fair there are women who could perform as well as many men in similar circumstances - there are one or two female candidates in the latest series of 'Who Dares Wins' who are very impressive. In general the results of the Bear Grylls experiment was entirely predictable. The best grouping would undoubtedly be a mix of male and female members but if it is single-sex, only one of those groups will survive.

  Our brains evolved over hundreds of thousands of years on the Savannah where the ability to hunt, fight and navigate on the one hand, and nurture infants on the other, was a matter of life-and-death.
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  cofty

  There's a good reason insurance is higher for male teenage drivers than female teenage drivers

  There is. Young men take more reckless risks. Sadly EU law made discrimination in insurance illegal and now we all pay more.

  Reality trumped by ideology.
  
  
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  Spoletta

  Lofty. May I make the observation that I see no mention of how many women, (as compared to men) were experienced campers. That should be part of the equation. If I put my 19 year old son in the woods with his nerdy friends, they'd be dead in a couple of weeks.
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  Spoletta

  Sorry for the spell check error. I truly did write Cofty.
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  cofty

  Spoletta the problem wasn't just a lack of ability but a total lack of interest in working together to even try to do the things necessary for group survival. The cliques, the gossip, the endless talking about what they all 'felt' about the experience and about others, the complete lack of leadership.

  It was stereotypical behaviour. The women focussed on people and feelings; the men focussed on solving practical problems.

  Are you really denying that men and women are wired differently above the neck from the womb? Really?
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  Spoletta

  Cofty. I wasn't disagreeing with your view of the differences between men and women. They're certainly there. I was just trying to give the women the benefit of the doubt, not challenging your premise.My apologies.
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  Della Street

  Our society is very hard on men. As has been mentioned, boys are told to be strong, not to show emotion, don't cry,... being taught and required to cut off parts of yourself is very damaging. I think what is missing is a broader definition of what it means to be male. Men can be rough and tumble, tender, artsy, creative, .... what I see happen is some traits are conflated with sexual orientation - so boys who like art, dance, literature, or are more "soft" are judged "gay" - which even in 2019 is negative in may places. Rather than accept that masculinity is a spectrum, people judge.

  And, because boys have been mistreated, they sometimes grow up to be men who mistreat others, particularly women.

  I think it is fair to say that both men and women face societal expectations that are unrealistic and damaging. It does no good to have an us vs. them mentality; there is injury to go around. Cultivating compassion helps us heal and develop lasting solutions.
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  cofty

  boys are told to be strong, not to show emotion, don't cry,...

  That's not always bad advice. The ability to control feelings and emotions is not incompatible with being caring and compassionate.
  
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  fulltimestudent

  It would be interesting to know the background of all the men in the group. Did they all participate and contribute equally? Did some become leaders, driving the activities that would have led to their survival in a real life context?

  And, to what extant was culture an influence?

  I.m not disagreeing with the conclusions of this study, just thinking aloud.

  It is interesting to compare that experiment with some real life situations, for example the seamen in the well-known Mutiny of the Bounty. There seem to be somewhat similar similar outcomes among the crews of Dutch ships wrecked on the W.A. Coast.

  Some of the difficulties experienced have been dramatised (sort of) in the fictional, "Lord of the Flies. This novel/film used a group of boys to make its point. Which therefore makes a point of view that the novelist chose. Do we too, tend to have a P.O.V. and then look for evidence to support our P.O.V.

  Similarly, with the women. Again. I think it's interesting to attempt to analyse their experience, first by their backgrounds and secondly by the cultural influences in their lives.

  I have not had time to read all comments, so I apologise if what seems to be the show that Cofty referred to has already been referenced already.
  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbQEEMhHWaE
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  Tobyjones262

  Being masculine is not bad. But anything can be taken to extremes that are bad. Being a man does not mean to be cruel to animals, or women or someone weaker. That is just being an asswipe. But men are different than women. In general they are stronger physically. Mentally they are really no different but there are some emotional differences. It took me a long time to realize that when my wife would cry about something she did not need me to fix it. Guys are fix it if its broke or just shut up about it. LOL It took me a while to learn that one. In general women like things that men are not that interested in. My wife can live a a quilt show, and I at a gun show. I go with her because she has suffered with me a many a gun show. Today's society is trying to deny nature. Its impossible. Boys will chase girls and girls will play hard to get and the beat goes on.