The Great Crowd!

by A Believer 183 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Sanchy

    Not sure what you are trying to prove, but again, no mention of the GC.

  • A Believer
    A Believer

    Paul said the 12 Apostles were promised reward in Heaven by Jesus not everyone. Them and the 144000

    19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness* for the way of entry into the holy place+ by the blood of Jesus,20 which he opened up* for us as a new and living way through the curtain,+ that is, his flesh,

    13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven+ but the one who descended from heaven,+ the Son of man.

    So David,Moses and Noah didn't go and they were before that scripture was written.

  • A Believer
    A Believer

    Sanchy the scripture says New Jerusalem descends from Heaven. Implying Earth. Those who conquer (make it past the tribulation) get a pillar of the temple.

    You choose not to understand because it doesn't say GC.

  • Sanchy

    So David,Moses and Noah didn't go and they were before that scripture was written.

    That does not necessarily mean they weren't "going" after the words were written.

    The "resurrection" had not occured yet.

    Hebrews 11 talks about these men of old and then verse 16 says about them: "Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one"

    The WT claims the resurrection is one to our old physical bodies. The Bible does not teach this. The second half of 1 Cor 15 describes the resurrection as to a new spiritual body.

  • Sanchy

    You choose not to understand because it doesn't say GC.

    I've never said that Revelation or other scriptures don't seem to be talking about some sort of Earth. I've mentioned this multiple times, and each time you chose to ignore it.

    My issue is with the interpretation WT gives to the Great Crowd.

    We are going in circles here A Believer.

    I urge you to do some research on the matter beyond what WT has to say. You'll find that there are many Christian interpretations out there that do include some sort of return to the Earth by humanity.

    Also, research the history of the WT, from multiple sources, and ask yourself if you can honestly say there is undeniable evidence that WT is the one true divinely chosen channel of God.

    Also, ask yourself why a supposed loving God would make his word, on which the lives of billions of people rest, so unclear and open to interpretation. If he truly wanted none of children to die, why wouldn't he just make his objective clear, easy to understand and undeniable? Wouldn't you?

  • TD

    The willingness to instruct Greek speakers on the meaning of Greek words via cut and paste snippets is amusing, but regardless of how the symbology of Revelation is interpreted, the passage of time has broken the, "Great Crowd" doctrine.

    This isn't my own personal opinion or interpretation inasmuch as Jehovah's Witnesses themselves set the conditions through with the doctrine would stand or fall.

    To wit:

    "Especially beginning in 1935, when the identity of the "great multitude" or "great crowd" was clearly understood, large numbers of these began to manifest themselves. At first there were hundreds, then thousands, later hundreds of thousands, and now there are millions spread around the Globe. Gods infallible Word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die (Revelation 7:9,10,14; John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60's or 70's or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowed" including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth." (Survival Into a New Earth p. 185 emphasis mine)

    Thirty-two years later, it is obvious that the bolded statement above failed to materialize and honest JW's (At least) would therefore have little choice but to admit that the, "Great Crowd" doctrine in it's current form is wrong and needs to be fixed.

  • Acluetofindtheuser

    If the account in Revelation and what Jesus said to his apostles about the 144,000 and Great Crowd are blended together you get a better picture.

    1. Jesus returns to earth after the great tribulation.

    2. New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. Sits on a lofty mountain top.

    3. Jesus is King and temporarily sits on God's throne here on earth. Jesus is Eternal Father(new Adam), Mighty God. He will take on physical form but he will be able to phase in and out just like after his resurrection.

    4. A special group of people work with Jesus around the temple to be counselors and advisors to the nations. This is the 144,000, but the number is not literal because it's too conveniently rounded. It's just a symbolic big number that is associated with the original Israel arrangement. This group will most likely not have married, just like Jesus.

    5. After a long period of time Jesus puts everything back together here on earth. Jesus then gives the throne back to his Father. The throne seat will probably be empty when that happens. That's the way God wanted it in the first place. People will know who really sits in that chair but he doesn't have to.

  • prologos

    The sly way that wt introduced the non-partaking with the great crowd stand-up in Washington in 1935. quote GKR book: " --- many could see where they stood and no longer partook" page 53 last line.

    To be saved. on earth or heaven you have to partake according to John six. For wt that would be easy to fix, more wine and crackers at the hall for the all the potential members of the future great crowd . ( according to wt, The great crowd exists only after armageddon ).

    Thank you all for the good reading of all the convoluted possibilities, spun out of the talking snake sequel.

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Believer you are deluded and misinformed, the Bible is not inspired and heaven and paradise are simply human dreams to represent a perfect life. They are not real things and can never be.

    It is better to stand with your feet on the ground and realize that since you were born, you will also die.............. and nobody even after 105 billion births has ever escaped this commonplace truth.

    There is no evidence for heaven, and no chance that most of those 105 billion people will magically be brought back to life again. Why on earth should they? It would no longer be a paradise with chronic overpopulation.

    Face the fact that we are mortal.

    The bottom line is that you and all believers are wallowing in childish fantasies to avoid this hard reality.

  • prologos
    The great crowed" including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth." (Survival Into a New Earth p. 185 emphasis mine) TD:

    Your quote invites the wt writers to redefine the generation to be, not the anointed of 1914, but the Other Sheep of 1935 instead. With more example of longevity among them**, that would give the GB more breathing room to really come clean about time, if they wanted to.

    ** John Glenn 95, Za ZA Gabor 99, Jeane Calment 122.

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