Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams

by cofty 69 Replies latest social current

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  slimboyfat

  TD, Austria is a good civilised country and has accepted many asylum seekers over the years. That’s not my point. You said that both Germany and Austria had both “lost patience” with refugees. I’m pointing out that this description obscures an important difference between Austria and Germany. The difference is that Germany welcomed huge number’s of refugees, often with enthusiasm, during the Syrian refugee crisis. So it perhaps makes sense to describe Germany, or many Germans now “losing patience” with those refugeees. Austria on the other hand never had any enthusiasm for accepting the refugees. They took as few as they could and sent as many as possible on to Germany as fast as they could. So there has not been as dramatic a change of opinion in Austria as there (arguably) has been in Germany. Austrians haven’t lost patience with refugeesa because they never wanted them in the first place.

  Plus as I posted out, the focus of the right wing government in Austria appears to be Austrians with a Turkish background. These are not new arrivals. If anything they are a well assimilated minority. Which makes these developments all the more concerning.
• 

  slimboyfat

  TD I don’t think the comparison is between the People’s Party and the Nazi party in Austria, rather their junior partner in government the Freedom Party. The Nazi links of the Freedom Party, both personal and ideological, are not difficult to locate. It was founded by a former SS officer.
• 

  humbled

  SBF— come to think of it... in 1973 when l worked as an Au Pare in Nuremberg before my sojourn in Ireland there were a lot of Turks around the area clear to the suburb of Wendelstein where my employers lived.

  The question is whether radical Islam has come with the infusion of outside money. One needs healthy skepticism in these times.
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  slimboyfat

  Call it what you will; public opinion is different now than it was just a few years ago when Schlager singers were highlighting the plight of these refugees in their music.

  Austrians were never eager to accept Syrian refugees. It was Angela Merkel who invited the refugees to Germany. Austria’s main role in the crisis was to block refugees at the Hungarian border until they recieved assurances from Germany that the refugees would pass through Austria and straight into Germany.

  I should explain I have personal experience of this. I was in Munich in September 2015 when many Germans lined the streets to welcome Syrian immigrants. I was in Vienna Westbahnhof in the same month when they were processing the Syrians coming off the train. There was no one there to welcome them to Austria, to say the least. Austrians have not “lost patience” with refugees because they were never eager to accept them in the first place.
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  slimboyfat

  What measures do you think would work, SBF?

  The Austrian Turks I met were pretty regular people, not very religious, very “business” oriented, probably a bit more “traditional” in their view of women: basically they don’t like their wives talking to other men, is about as “extreme” as it gets. Where is the evidence of rampant extremism? No doubt there are a few individuals, because there always are. But is it worth alienating nearly 7% of your population over? Unless stigmatisation is actually the goal, not an unfortunate side effect. These measures look as if they are intended to target Turkish Austrians in particular. (Is the Catholic Church banned from sharing resources?) I don’t see how that helps anyone. It’s more likely to turn a few into radicals than it is to solve any problem.

  Left to their own devices Austrian Turks were well on the way to adopting “western” attitudes and behaviour. Now? Who knows!
• 

  Simon

  But is it worth alienating nearly 10% of your population over?

  How do policies against extremists "alienate" these people? If they side with the extremists over the host country then they need to be alienated on a boat back to wherever they came from.

  Bad representatives of a country harm the legitimate immigrants of that country the most so I would imaging they should welcome a clampdown.
  
  
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  slimboyfat

  I checked the figure and it’s nearer 7%. I don’t want to fall into the common trap of exaggerating immigrant populations. I never saw any evidence of Turkish extremists in Austria. There may be some, of course.

  Closing down mosques alienates regular Turkish people who thought they were welcome in Austria, to say the obvious.
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  humbled

  Have you read the article on young Muslims in Australia who want out of Islam, SBF? The poster no-zombie has it out. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5955816503902208/problem-being-wanting-ex-muslinThe relevant feature of radical Islam is the violent coercive nature of it. The negative impact on host nations and on the oppressive conditions it forces upon its own members subverts the excercise of freedoms in a country. I am convinced that there should be thresholds of assimilation for citizens to enjoy benefits of residency. At least do no harm to the others. The ordinary rule of law could create and maintain order by simply legislating criteria for conduct that had been customary for long time residents but must be legally described for others

  Thats how I see the matter.
• 

  cofty

  The Freedom Party (FPO) is indeed on the far right with historical links to German National Socialists. It recently took 30% of the vote in Vienna.

  The problem is that if centrist parties refuse to deal the problem of Islam's refusal to live in the West according to Western standards of social freedom the far-right will flourish.
• 

  TD

  SBF
  

  I should explain I have personal experience of this

  Ich auch. Ich habe in den letzten zwei Jahren für eine österreichische Firma gearbeitet und spreche wöchentlich mit ihnen. (Deshalb musste ich plötzlich Deutsch lernen....es macht die Dinge einfacher.)

  Ich möchte den Namen nicht in einem öffentlichen Forum geben, sondern würde es Ihnen privat mitteilen, wenn Sie interessiert sind.

  I honestly don't know why you've interpreted my statement to mean that Germany and Austria are losing patience in exactly the same fashion (As opposed to each in their own way) but maybe that is in interesting difference in the flavor of English we both speak.

  In connection with Austria alone, perhaps the term, "Backlash" or "Political fallout" or "Repercussion" or "The growing realization that Islam by its very nature resists assimilation" would have been better, but either way, the OP alone was more than enough evidence that the climate has changed.