Slimboyfat—do you think that all systems of belief in Islam are the same?
Austria Begins Closing Mosques and Deporting Imams
I don’t know much about Islam at all. I know that I met many normal Turkish people in Vienna getting on with their lives. I never met any extremists or saw any evidence of them. I suspect that these targeted laws will make even the most secular Turkish people feel uncomfortable and wonder whether they are still welcome in Austria. This is an unwelcome and pernicious development.
I sympathize with your sensibilities, slimboyfat. Your observations on the normal Turkish people are not to be argued with. But the problem when one is unfamiliar with the history of Islam’s evolution over these hundreds of years we are ignorant of the fears moderate progressive Muslims have of the salafists and Wahabis.
These radical and often violent interpretations of Islam are infiltrating the former safe havens of western countries. The pressures these radical views have built over the decades is a worry beyond the young educated Muslims (they frequently wish to leave Islam) who are threatened by a strict interpretation of sharia . It has raised concerns in that the assimilation that would have been healthy has not happened as well as it needed to to prevent insularity and separation to grow.
The outside funding of mosques and the suppliers of radical clerics have increased the unease between Muslim communities and the surrounding populations. Coupled with these issues are the decades in which authorities failed to address the ignorant and twisted subset of Pakistani rape grooming gangs preying primarily upon poor non-Muslim girls. ..There has finally been outrage and the realization that laws must tighten up to maintain the host countries’ ability to maintain customersry standards of safety for all.
This past week there were several videos posted with interviews and discussions with U.K. Muslims and town halls where there were frank divisions between Muslims themselves concerning their religion.
Not least is the need to protect Muslims citizens who are struggling under the oppressive form of Islam in their host countries, within their own families.
If there were no physical danger maybe we could bear another odd religion. But this is much worse than the Watchtower. The problems have been growing.
Law is better than violence. The idea is not to close all mosques. The intolerance should only be for the violent extreme Islam. There really are differences, SBF.
This single article is an eye-opener
It is not required to change ones name when converting, but I’ve noticed that some encourage it. It's not religion but custom in some circles. My friend from work, Cecilia, converted but no one told her to change it. Some have asked if she plans to. She doesn’t.
In deference to SBF, the following story is almost entirely about Germany (Although it does note a surge in populism all over Europe.)
Tabloids like Bild seem to be stirring people up over this. (More so than they would have been.)
I’m in Vienna just now and spent this afternoon in the American Bar (by Adolf Loos, it’s perfection) with an elderly Viennese historian. They see the shift, along with neighbouring countries, as a repeat of the 20th century mistakes. I read some things out from this thread and she laughed at how ignorant it sounded.
Scotsman, could you elaborate? I frankly admit that I struggle sometimes to understand the political nuances of the EU.
(For the record I do not deny that the surge in populism may well be a repeat of 20th century mistakes. My observations on this thread have been that it is indeed happening.)
I second that request.
Scotsman, could you elaborate?
Clearly the Austrian government is concerned with the problem of assimilating a vast number of people. You have read the thread.
As an American in a southern state l find that in a room of people of different backgrounds, classes, occupations will give entirely different responses to certain questions. They will or won’t say there is a serious problem in our state with child welfare, homelessness, drugs, prisons, housing, transportation and jobs.
Persons who live apart from the working classes and the poor—they think the poor who are sinking under their burdens simply have a moral problem. I live in the middle of it and their plight is complicated.
l think the problems Countries face with radical Islam are likewise complicated.
Please don’t thing me dismissive or rude to say that an elderly Viennese historian might see the historical follies of the past in the crude responses of fearful citizens and yet fail to see a real problem provokes that concern. She may be in a class far removed from the frictions. I just suggest it because l see it here in my state. As for history and it has been there too that the rulers can be unaware of the struggles beyond their salons and libraries. “Let them eat cake!”
Here is yet another news story:
I would interpret the appointment of Sommer as further evidence of a shift in German politics, but maybe someone will enlighten me if I'm wrong.