JW and the Sabbath

by Andromeda 103 Replies latest watchtower beliefs


    So, the Bible is easy to understand, but you haven't answered my question about Hebrews 9:26,27??

    Also, you lost me when you started giving the WTBTS credit for bloodless surgery. That's a JW factoid.

    Did you know that Doctors have always tried to minimize blood loss for trauma victims? That's because they realize people die without blood. They figured that out without a WT magazine.


  • Sevan

    As for the blood issue:

    jwfact.com does an excellent breakdown of the actual scriptural statements on the use of blood. Really worth a read.

    Not to mention that the JW stance on blood is completely hypocritical as fractions and medications that require liters upon liters of stored blood to produce and add up to 100% of whole blood are allowed. Not to mention that the organization has flip-flopped multiple times on this issue.

    I have a question for you? What is more important, the symbol of something or the actual thing? For example, what is more important, the symbol of marriage (for example, wedding rings) or marriage itself? What is more important, the symbol of life or life itself?

    How do you think the God of all mercy and the giver of life would feel about parents sacrificing the life of their children over a symbol?

    If you read the gospel accounts, you will see that Jesus consistently put human life above the law and gave many examples and parables about this exact subject. Jesus stated that the Sabbath was created for the sake of man, not man for the sake of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). Further Jesus stated, "Go, then, and learn what this means: 'I want mercy and not sacrifice'" (Matthew 9:13). Jesus further said that it is not what goes into a man that defiles a man, but what comes out of a man that defiles him (Matthew 15:11).

    Moreover, the pouring out of blood is always done in connection with the death of that animal. It is to show respect for the life of that animal and respect that life comes from Jehovah. There is no way to fully bleed an animal, but pouring out the blood was symbolic for that dead animal's life (Leviticus 17:13, 14; Deuteronomy 12:15, 16). Consuming no blood was not the point as that is impossible, but rather the symbol showing respect. This is highlighted when David poured out, not blood, but water, showing respect for the life of his men (2 Samuel 23:15-17).

    Further, blood transfusions are a totally different scenario, as no life is lost when blood is donated. There is no blood to pour out in respect for lost life as no life is lost. In fact, life is often saved, which is the highlight of respect for life.

    Finally, Acts 15 read in context and in context with other scriptures makes it clear that this was a one time compromise to make peace between Jewish and Gentile Christians. Jewish Christians were trying to force Gentile Christians to adhere to Mosaic Law and this was a compromise for the sake of peace and unity. Paul and Jesus Christ himself both make it clear elsewhere that eating things sacrificed to idols and in fact eating anything was not a sin (Acts chapter 15; 1 Corinthians chapter 8; Romans chapter 14; Mark 7:15-19).

    The point is, the JW stance on blood transfusions is unscriptural and perverts the message and purpose of Christ. It does create human sacrifices and martyrs, which is what the organization wants. Once you find out the truth about the truth, you will see that the organization does not care about the flock, the "rank and file" Jehovah's Witness, and will gladly sacrifice them if it suits the organization's purposes. The blood issue is just one example. How many innocents died due to the former stance on vaccines and organ transplants? On selective service? In Malawi (research Malawi vs Mexico)? There is so much more. I suggest you research more both about Jehovah's Witnesses and about the Scriptures.

  • OrphanCrow
    andromeda: I did not finished medical school due to a car accident. However, I have a sister who is a doctor, her husband is an anesthesiologist, my cousin and her husband are both doctors, my uncle is a doctor, my other sister is a nurse and have many other family members in various fields of medicine. As you can imagine this subject is a common subject amongs us.

    Thank you for answering

    That is quite the impressive medical family...all JWs?

    Anyways, you can read the apocryphal books and draw your own conclusions


    I was interested in which of the books you have read that you draw your conclusions about blood from. I assumed that such a decisive statement would be simple to back up. You know...so I don't have to go back and read all that copious amount of literature just to figure out what you are talking about. You know...communication...so that we are on the same page sort of, and so that I can evaluate your claims about blood. Blood interests me and seeing as you were the one who brought up your medical knowledge and such...and I also sort of like all that old 'sacred' literature you talked about

  • Andromeda

    Human life is above as long as it does notdoes not require us to break Jehovah's laws. Jesus didn't touch on bestiality for example does that mean is allowed?

    Also I have no clue where you get the idea that there is no evidence of a worldwide flood. There is and obviously you are reasearching on biased sites.

    I suppose no one here is aware of the Jesuits and their agenda.

    @orphancrow I really wish to stay on the subject at hand. If you're interested in something else go create a new post.

  • Crazyguy

    Ok first off the bible is contradictory when it comes to the sabbath. 2 Jesus said nothing about eating blood especially killing yourself by not taking in blood. Math 12 Jesus says we desire mercy not sacrifice and in math 15 nothing eaten can defile a man. Also science shows us that in every drop of human breast milk there is roughly 1 million white blood cells .

    As far as them being right about holidays not, read Romans chapter 14 and Colossians . Hell fire is talked about in the New Testament and Jesus did go to the underworld.

    Trinity was not a concern be early Christians because they were worshipping Jesus and the new promoted God. The church only made the trinity a deal when others were saying that Jesus was an invented God as well as some other issues so they made Jesus a trinity with his father.

    Keep up your research and maybe since the sabbath is a big deal to you, you should look into the 7 th day Adventists ...oh and one other thing 800,000 years of ice core samples drilled out of the South Pole show no world wide flood event. The Grand Canyon again second deepest canyon in the world and millions of years old and it shows no sediment layer of a flood. Again check out the ice cores


    I am well aware of the powers of demons and the deception they've played on us for centuries.


  • TheWonderofYou

    I always wondered why Jehovas witnesses dont have a "holy day" neither SABBAT nor the LORDSDAY.
    I thought .oh they are very modern they give these days a "spiritualized sense" so the actual day were not important.

    Well the Sabbath, I try a new kind of approach to the matter and perhaps I have success and can take a sabbatical. I let you take part in my finding process:

    The Genesis is not a historical evidence that the Sabbath was given to ADAM and EVE as a gift or a law or an institution. As a theologically arranged story about creation and description of the understanding of the people of Israel how the World was and should be, the Sabbath plays in Genesis the role as reminder for ISRAEL of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness and as a sign for the covenant.

    Read Genesis Chapter 2, no mentioning of Sabbat being a day of worship for Adam and Eve, later it was not mandated for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and the rest of gods people as well. It was instituted officially in Exodus in the law of Moses (~1500 BCE). The law of Sinai was for Israel and Sabbat was sign of the coventant between God and Israel, AND NEVER a sign between God and the nations. God instituted the seventh-day system, not for everybody in the world. In fact, specifically it says for Israel. Verse 17, “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.”

    The Jews never phantazised that the Sabbath order was not explicitly given to Israel alone, why should christian then do it? And for Jews without Christ this Thora is of course binding even today. For them the Law has not "ended". The Thora is not for the whole mankind.

    However for Christians the Law of Christ is applicable. (Galatians 6,2) We are under the "law of Christ" this term is not an invention by Paul, but a well known term of rabbinic theology. The Law of Christ is not end of Thora in unrigthousness but Perfection through a new messianic thora that is highter and more exalted than the mosaic.

    What do todays Jews think of that old jewish term "law of Christ"? Rabbi Silberg writing about Thora-study in the messianic era, explains: "The Torah which we study in this world is naughty in comparison to the Torah of Moshiach, Moshiach will teach about G‑d and we will "see" it.

    Christians under the law of christ can celebrate a sabbath remembering God as our Creator and thinking of the fact that we live in the REALITY of the REST. We rest from works righteousness, efforts at self-salvation, a rest based on gods mercy. We have entered into the rest of the gospel. Every day for us is a sabbath, because every day we rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

    The church writes (catechism) that the Sunday, better LORD's DAY, is the perfection of the Sabbat. On the first day of the week, we celebrate Him as our Redeemer, The Sunday fulfills through Christ the spiritual sense of the sabbath and is a sign... it proclaims the eternal rest of God in us men. No better sabbatical rest in sight

  • OrphanCrow

    Andro, my apologies. I was only responding to what you had said

    Please stay on track so we know what we are supposed to discuss...you have wandered all over the place and made some pretty far fetched claims on a thread that you claim is about the sabbath

    i am just trying to catch up...lots of claims being flung around here

    lots of claims being flung around here.....OrphanCrow


  • Giles Gray
    Giles Gray

    Andromeda-" If you believe there is no God there that's your own conclusion which is far from mine. I don't intent on convincing anyone of there being a God. I am well aware of the powers of demons and the deception they've played on us for centuries."

    How do you know that the bible and all Christian belief isn't just a big hoax by such demons, or even the god Zeus? Would explain why every religion is pretty nasty.

    Andromeda-" Also I have no clue where you get the idea that there is no evidence of a worldwide flood. There is and obviously you are reasearching on biased sites."

    It doesn't take much logic to disprove the Noachian flood myth. You don't need any web sites.

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