Who's To Blame For The Child Abuse Problem?

by Englishman 68 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Englishman

  This is a real revelation to me, I can tell you.

  Paedophiles are able to convince THEMSELVES that they are not doing any wrong so in Dub land they CAN have the active part and feel they will 'get life everlasting in a paradise'

  Paedophiles are criminals but totally different to any hypocritical brother who has defrauded or stolen property and who is leading two lives.

  Paedophiles are so convincing that over time they groom innocent victims by persuasive talk - they are also persuading themselves that they are not wrongdoers. Significant psychological evidence is available to expose the mindset of such people. Sadly I have had judicial experience dealing with paedophilia (I have too much respect for the victims to give specific details) and I can say with confidence that the perpetrators are shocked and affronted when accused of the crime - they are convinced that they are involved in some childish and innocent play.

  For the umpteenth time in my life I am seeing that common sense reasoning just doesn't come into it when perversions are involved.

  Englishman.
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  core

  common sense reasoning just doesn't come into it when perversions are involved.

  ..wise words indeed......a paedophile is in most cases the last person you would expect - a kind, considerate and loyal person in all things..... I think that the % of such in the WT is not much different from the worlds average...however the conditions that exist are IDEAL for the cunning and calculating (over many years) paedophile who worms his way into situations that allow him to have trusted access to vulnerable ones. Incidentally - not all paedophiles are the comic book character of a dirty old man in a mac - many are married men with children who give no impression that they are a threat - obvious really because who would let a dirty old man in a mac near their children ? - no, such ones appear 'normal' decent' 'trustworthy' & use and abuse the special trust that the brotherhood provides which is why they should be removed from congregations when discovered - not protected and given confidentiality to continue with someone else as a victim.
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  Pork Chop

  This is a pretty good thread except for Farkel and gumby's lunacy. A pedophile would want nothing to do with a high control group with continual scrutiny of their actions.

  I do believe that when it comes to situational pedophilia, especially with older girls, that some of the repressive, restrictive atmosphere in the Organization may play a part. Some guy that's not happy with his situation and limited social skills sees an available sexual outlet and takes it without considering the ramifications of what he's doing. I know of two situations where that's happened.
• 

  waiting

  Hello Core,

  Thanks you for your insight and comments. For one specific type of pedophile, I can see that they might be right on target.

  Paedophiles are so convincing that over time they groom innocent victims by persuasive talk - they are also persuading themselves that they are not wrongdoers. Significant psychological evidence is available to expose the mindset of such people. Sadly I have had judicial experience dealing with paedophilia (I have too much respect for the victims to give specific details) and I can say with confidence that the perpetrators are shocked and affronted when accused of the crime - they are convinced that they are involved in some childish and innocent play.

  I can understand a man/woman (I was just giving my child a bath!) rationalizing. This might be true of fondlers, even digital penetrators. But a man who has his penis inserted in a vagina, rectum, mouth, knows where his penis is.....and it's not innocent play. A female who's inserting semi-large objects into a child in same areas......she knows.

  Men have also rationalized (and women too) "She/he wanted it." Even 5 yr olds...somehow "wanted it."

  There are all kinds of pedophiles. Some actually don't physically molest children - get their kicks from pornography, etc. A police officer was telling me of some pedophiles wear depends, etc., and then have the kid sit on their lap.....then they tickle the kid causing them to "wiggle all over"....bringing the pedophile to orgasm. The child never realizes what has happened. And the molester might be shocked to be considered a molester." Others tickle other places. Wrestling is a great time to grope....so is swimming.

  Others use fingers, objects. Others rape. I strongly feel that an adult who's raping a child knows what he/she's doing. They may not admit it......but they know.

  waiting
• 

  core

  But a man who has his penis inserted in a vagina, rectum, mouth, knows where his penis is.....and it's not innocent play

  ABsolutely correct. Yet you are thinking as I do as a normal decent person who is repelled by the concept of abuse of children and other vulnerable ones. Paedophiles do not think like normal decent people and can rationalise their actions. This is one reason they are so dangerous - it is (in my view) impossible for a paedophile to reform or change.

  However - from my experience and reading on this I would still say that the paedophile has turned his perversion into a "game" in as much as he can explaint it away to the victim as such - one which disgust most of us, but to the perpetrator he is calculating and prepared to move very slowly and steadily gaining (misusing) the childs trust or building fear of consequence ......"if anyone finds out about our little game........."

  Yes its not innocent play but to the paedophile who can rationalise away his behaviour he cannot see himself as an abuser.

  Yes some carry the abuse to different degrees for their own lewd intent but all are able to face the world, the victims, the victims parents, brothers in the congs ets with no measure of shame, remorse or embarrasment. It is this that makes them different from mere criminals. They cannot repent or change and feel none of the revulsion we all share at their activities.
• 

  waiting

  hello pork chop,

  Still at it, eh?

  This is a pretty good thread except for Farkel and gumby's lunacy. A pedophile would want nothing to do with a high control group with continual scrutiny of their actions.

  There is NO "continual scrutiny of their actions." Many brothers in our area have access to kids. There's just not enough men around.....and so many sisters with all these kids. Much like a priest situation, a leader of any kind of kid's group. There's other valid reasons why any closed religion, one where women & female (in particular) children are considered of lesser value than any man "according to the Bible".

  I do believe that when it comes to situational pedophilia, especially with older girls, that some of the repressive, restrictive atmosphere in the Organization may play a part. Some guy that's not happy with his situation and limited social skills sees an available sexual outlet and takes it without considering the ramifications of what he's doing. I know of two situations where that's happened.

  "situational pedophilia" - I understand the concept .....and would think that's why some social workers put families back together after a child has been molested, particularily when the offender and/or family is will to go through counseling. My god, I've actually agreed with you. Thanks. waiting
• 

  waiting

  However - from my experience and reading on this I would still say that the paedophile has turned his perversion into a "game" in as much as he can explaint it away to the victim as such - one which disgust most of us, but to the perpetrator he is calculating and prepared to move very slowly and steadily gaining (misusing) the childs trust or building fear of consequence ......"if anyone finds out about our little game........."

  In some instances, yes. In some - no. The illusion of a game is just wording sometimes. "War games" for instance. "Friendly Fire." It doesn't mean that it's that way all the time. "Daddy's playing games." It's not just the pedophile....it becomes society in general which rationalizes. Some pedophiles aren't playing any games. They're as deadly serious as any other rapist. Oh, some have fun while their raping......but that doesn't make it a game. Just because a person laughs....doesn't mean it's funny.

  I've never read where Ted Bundy thought he was innocent of raping and killing women. And some of them were quite young too.

  Yes its not innocent play but to the paedophile who can rationalise away his behaviour he cannot see himself as an abuser.

  Your experience is different than mine. From what I gather, you've been part of judicial committees as an elder where a man's come in and been shocked that the innocent play (in his perception or rationalization) could be viewed as child molestation. He had deluded himself into this thought process. Ok. no problem.

  My experience is entirely different. My father had no delusions about what he was doing. I was his, so were all the animals in his house. And tying me in with the animals is just fraught with psychological implications. He was raping & beating me & my brother, he was raping & gutting animals, he was having sex with anything that moved within his range...or didn't move. It didn't matter. He had full control - and he knew it.

  It was not a game with him. He was deadly serious - and very good. A very quiet man.

  I don't discount the type of experience you've had - nor the pedophiles you'e come into contact with. Please don't discount my experiences. It was just my bad luck to come into contact with another type of pedophile. He knew what he was doing....so did his friends. I remember.
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Odrade,

  Thanks for sharing that experience. I fear you have described well the typical JW pedophile.

  She went to the authorities, got a restraining order. He spent time in jail, there were two witnesses, so the congregation "dealt" with him, but did not disfellowship, as he was evidently "repentant."

  That is my experience with those who are exposed by two witnesses or who confess. You did not mention any congregation sanction for the daughter going to the authorities. I hope there were none. There are some elders who try to do the right thing despite their concern for the "congregation's reputation". Usually they are over-ruled by the majority on the body.

  So glade you are out and you survived such close contact with a somewhat typical pedophile who was a "good man".

  Jst2laws
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Core,

  You seem to have an inordinate insight into this problem.

  Paedophiles are able to convince THEMSELVES that they are not doing any wrong so in Dub land they CAN have the active part and feel they will 'get life everlasting in a paradise'

  If anyone wants a specific on this matter two survivors of molestation told me that their father, now convicted of many counts for molesting his daughters and jailed for life, to this day does not believe he did anything wrong. He contends that it never even happened and his victims feel he truly believes this.

  paedophile who can rationalise away his behaviour he cannot see himself as an abuser.

  I believe you are right on, Core. It seems strange to us in the real world where we deal with the harm these perps impose on innocent children.

  This is an example why I said in my first comment on this thread that the Watchtower Society doesn't

  have a clue about the dangers of repeat pedophilia, nor do we respect children.

  They just do not understand this problem yet they try to handle it internally. My message to the Governing Body is:

  Just turn crime over to the authorities.

  Thanks for you balanced input Core. Looking forward to more from you.

  Jst2laws
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  core

  waiting

  Thanks for your comments - I appreciate what you say and can agree with your viewpoint about those who see control and dominance as part of their personality. I suppose the divide is between abusers outside a family circle and those (as in your case) within it.

  I can only hope that for you the nightmare is starting to fade .............but my own experience tells me that it never can fade. So sorry that there are no words I can use to help put things right for you.