by Englishman 68 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
Farkel and gumby,
While I am still reluctant to contradict the Farkmiester, I really doubt the WT has pedophiles flooding into their organization just to practice their crime without detection. The scenario you present could happen but is anyone aware of such a case?
Jst2laws
Actually, E-Man, the Watchtower Religious Corporation does not give JW pedophiles a feeling of invincibility. Rather, the peodphiles of any religious stripes, care not for the rule of law or any sense of protection ... they care only for their own gratification ... and sometimes the risk of getting caught actually heightens their drive and passion. The real root of the problem is with these perpetrators.
The Watchtower, unlike most religions, facilitates the existence of pedophiles among them because they wrongfully apply rigidly to rules of evidence at the expense of children. Also, they believe that they, as Gawd's organization, are best suited to deal with such problkems, and as a result allowed many JW pedophiles to continue to serve in positions of trust while concealing their backgrounds under the cloth of clergy-laity privilege.
I do not believe that JW pedophiles join the religion just for the social protection if offers ... nor do I believe that the numerical ratios of pedophiles among the JWs are much greater than in society at large ... rather, I believe that the JW pedophiles they do have are allowed to continue their crimes because they are not properly turned over to the authorities ... as would be the case in most religions or other social groups and situations.
We know that the Watchtower religion denounces pedophilia. Rather than being the root of the problem, however, they are unwitting facilitators by virtue of their own foolish rules that they themselves do not use correctly or even understand fully. But, in more recent years, rather than being unwitting, they have transformed to stubborn witting facilitators ... not because they like peodphiles, but because they place an inordinate value on their own name and reputation, they cannot see the forest for the trees.
Wow, thank you all so much for all of your input.
I can't work something out though. Take, for an example, a dub who spends time in the ministry, going to meetings, giving talks etc. He's doing the whole bit. However, he's also a child molestor. Are we to assume that he's doing all the witness stuff purely to gain access to children? He surely can't actually believe in anything that witnesses teach because he'd also have to believe that he's fated to die at armageddon for his crimes against children. What I am saying is that it can't be possible for a dub molestor to actually believe anything the witnesses teach.
Can it?
Englishman.
Eman,
When the late Pat Garza stated that she was a victim of ritual child abuse, I thought to myself "Oh, God. THAT blows away her credibility." But after reflection, and through several discussions, I realized that ritual abuse makes some logical sense.
When the abuser(s) put a child in a dark room with candles burning and mystical symbols about, and when the abuser(s) torture animals in front of them, or otherwise use real blood in the ritual, a child would naturally be terrified. Terrified into silence, that is. The abuser(s) doesn't have to believe in Satanism for this to happen, but merely uses such techniques as props to keep the child silenced by the sheer horror it brings to the child.
There have been as-yet unverified claims that some dub pedos are ubiquitous: frequently making jaunts about the country and in so doing are able to have others share their prey with them.
Whether this is true or not, I do not know. Such people live in a dark, shadowy and very secret world. That being the case, we'll just have to wait and see if facts about this assertion will emerge or not.
People join religions for many selfish reasons: to find friends, to prey on women (or men) and to make business contacts. I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that some might join a religion and go through the motions of practicing if it allows them to practice pedophelic pervsions with almost-guarantee impunity.
Farkel
I question what Pat Garza claimed. I do not believe the claim as it has been laid out on the web.
Jack
What I am saying is that it can't be possible for a dub molestor to actually believe anything the witnesses teach.
But pedophilia is a compulsion, a perversion and crime. Not a belief system. From a religious standpoint, it is no more conflicting than one who practices another crime, yet still believes as the Witnesses. When I was growing up, there was a pedophile in our congregation--as I'm sure there are in many. He was kind and sympathetic. He was step-dad to several children and had one of his own. With a large, friendly family you can imagine there were always kids around, I was there as much or more than any, and the mother often said I was as much her kid as any of her own. As well, this brother was quiet and non-threatening in personality, and a great listener, so many of the single mothers gravitated towards him (as an elder) for help and advice.
I have reason to believe my own father knew of this man's predatory tendencies. He gave me a very cryptic warning once, and I was never allowed one time to any of the sleep-overs arranged at their home, until I got to my teens, and we could lock the door. I always thought the daughter locked her door to keep her siblings out of her stuff. Now I think she was protecting us. All of this molestation came to light when the older daughter discovered him trying to start in on the younger one. She went to the authorities, got a restraining order. He spent time in jail, there were two witnesses, so the congregation "dealt" with him, but did not disfellowship, as he was evidently "repentant." Although, in recognizance of the restraining order, they did ask that he attend another hall. No announcements were ever made to protect the children in the hall, although by that time it was a matter of public record if anyone had looked. I suspect many did not, and he kept a low profile--so many may not still know.
My point in all of this is that he had tremendous faith in Jehovah, and cried at the "disgrace" he had committed. He studied fervently and really believed in the truth. He still does to this day. This is NOT A SYMPATHETIC ACCOUNT! I want to emphasize that. I make no excuses. I'm just giving my perspective at the time, and why it was so shocking. There were no vibes of falsehood, because he really believed. I was close to this brother, in some ways, nearly as close as my own family. In others, even closer. It broke my heart that he could be so horrible. And I took it personally. He never once tried anything with me, treated me like a daughter, but I knew it was true that he was a pedophile because sometimes you just know when people are telling you the truth, even before you get the evidence.
Today, I hate this man, even though it's been many years. The brothers and sisters in his congregation have completely accepted him back in "lovingly," while his family are all scattered, and struggle to this day. About half are still JWs, the others in various stages of exit. For several years I was still in the same town, and would not speak to him--not in a JW shunning sort of way, but in a betrayal of trust way. I see him once in a while at gatherings of my home congregation--though I think I've been to my last one--and it makes me physically ill when he comes up wanting a hug, or even to hear his voice. Nevermind that I'm an adult now, and no longer his personal cup of tea. I remember being a child in his home, and the revulsion I feel now is for the little girls that were violated, and the other little girls that were in danger because no one would speak up until his courageous daughter did.
His circle of friends include many children now. I wonder how many remember, and have the prescence of mind to protect their kids. Or how many say he's repented and turned around, so no danger. And how many just don't know. Sorry for the length, I just wanted to make the point that this man was a true believer, and a "good man." The perfect disguise, because he wasn't trying to hide anything at all except his abberant behavior.
If I weren't a closet xjw, I would post my full name, so any jws or lurkers here who knew him could be warned. Maybe it's irresponsible that I don't, but given the fact that at least 100 people do know, and it's a matter of public record, I'm not so compelled.
Odrade
Odrade,
Thanks so much for that account. I know it must have been very painful to relate all of that, but you have really helped me to see just how these people operate.
Many Thanks,
Englishman.
I can't work something out though. Take, for an example, a dub who spends time in the ministry, going to meetings, giving talks etc. He's doing the whole bit. However, he's also a child molestor. Are we to assume that he's doing all the witness stuff purely to gain access to children? He surely can't actually believe in anything that witnesses teach because he'd also have to believe that he's fated to die at armageddon for his crimes against children. What I am saying is that it can't be possible for a dub molestor to actually believe anything the witnesses teach.Can it?
Englishman
Paedophiles are able to convince THEMSELVES that they are not doing any wrong so in Dub land they CAN have the active part and feel they will 'get life everlasting in a paradise'
Paedophiles are criminals but totally different to any hypocritical brother who has defrauded or stolen property and who is leading two lives.
Paedophiles are so convincing that over time they groom innocent victims by persuasive talk - they are also persuading themselves that they are not wrongdoers. Significant psychological evidence is available to expose the mindset of such people. Sadly I have had judicial experience dealing with paedophilia (I have too much respect for the victims to give specific details) and I can say with confidence that the perpetrators are shocked and affronted when accused of the crime - they are convinced that they are involved in some childish and innocent play. They do not think and act like any normal person who would be repulsed by such conduct - once a paedophile always a paedophile a senior brother once remarked to me. They are sick in their minds and so can lead a life in the truth and not be convicted by their own conscience.
The problem with the WT and recent attempts at dealing with the problem is rooted in the fact that paedophiles do not, of a sudden impulse, grab little children or do some indecent act on the spur of the moment. The slow grooming (made easier by the "spritual paradise" =- all brothers are trustworthy - all in the world are evil) has not been addressed and the latest publication is naive in the way it deals with the situation. When evidence exists of a "brother" being a danger to little ones is available elders should alert should alert all parents. Publications need to address the SIGNS of a paedophile, how and why grooming occurs, and how parents can protect children from such unscrupulous people.
Thanks Englishman, it was hard to write. Mostly because I'm really careful not to put any revealing details on here. But I couldn't keep quiet on this one. Pedophilia is so insidious because it is a crime of deception and betrayal. In order to operate, they HAVE to get people to trust them. They have to separate what they do from all other aspects of their life or there is an air of deceit about them that others will pick up on. This man was seemingly the most trustworthy person I knew, and others felt the same.
I don't think that JWs have any more or less problems with individual molesters. I do think that they could have more issues with reoccurences though. If the school janitor is a molester, some kid will tell, and it will make the front page of the paper. If a jw molests and a child tells, the whole thing is kept under wraps by ecclesiastical privelege, leaving the offender opportunity to offend repeatedly until someone breaks confidentiality, or defies the Elder Body and goes to the authorities. It's the same with many other closed society churches. I don't think pedophiles come into the organization with the express purpose of molesting, but in living their day to day lives, make choices that, while otherwise are normal ones, bring them into close contact with vulnerable children. It would be the same modus operandi in many settings. Schools, churches, sports organizations, clubs...
Just my $.02
Odrade
This is one of the most balanced threads on the pedophiles themselves I've read. Thank you all.
Good to see you, Farkel - All parents know how easy it is to get kids to believe in The Boogeyman, the monster in the closet, the monster under his bed....but somehow we can't believe that an adult in authority position over a child could use these same types of props to scare children into submission. Groom, hell.....terrorize. You kill a kid's pet graphically in front of them....you've got that kid's rapt attention.
Even average religious people use these same props to keep their kids in line: Do you want to go to Hell? Do you know how hot hellfire is? Do you want to be killed at Armageddon? Do you want Satan to see you? These things work with little kids.
Thanks Odrade, for your posts - very insightful. I've also learned that there are people like the man you described. Driven by compulsions, able to deny their consciences. However, I truly believe with my father - he had no values when it came to his brutality. He just did when the urge came forth. He had the type of mind the Nazi's did. Torture on one level, go home and hug the wife on another level. Existing side by side, but never touching. Suspect he was a true sociopath.
My younger brother? I think he was quite different. He sexually abused a child for years. But I think he was acting out of terrible anger at my father, who abused him horribly. But I don't think my brother had the blankness of empathy my father had.
Btw, my father was an atheist - very much a loner. My brother never wanted anything to do with religion.
waiting
